VIVA + York Region Transit

[reaperexpress]

And there's still not enough attention being paid to station access. It doesn't matter how frequently trains run when the parking is full and the local bus sucks. NB: This is not to be misconstrued as advocating for more station parking--we need massively improved local bus service to as many GO stations as possible.

YRT deserves special shame in this department. There has been all-day service on the Barrie line since 2017 and I don't think they have a single bus that is timed to meet a GO train. In fact they eliminated the old peak-period GO Shuttle routes which were timed based on GO trains and never replaced them with full service routes. Connecting to GO is the one situation where YRT could actually generate fairly substantial ridership despite their abysmal frequencies, given that the train only runs once per hour anyway so everyone wants to go to the station at the same time each hour (or potentially two times each hour if there is demand for the trains in both directions).

For example:
Route 54 Bayview North (from Yonge & Wellington in Aurora to East Gwillimbury Station via Bayview) could potentially be a useful way to get to/from the hourly train service, except that it only runs roughly every 65 minutes on Saturdays and every 70 minutes on Weekdays off-peak, and it doesn't run at all on Sundays.
Route 33 runs along past Aurora station roughly every 35 minutes but because it's not a clockface schedule there is no correlation with the GO Train arrivals.
Route 26 runs from Maple station to the neighbourhoods to the northwest during weekday peak periods, but since it runs roughly every 50 minutes while trains run every 30, it does not match up with train arrivals.

As another demonstration of how little effort YRT makes to serve GO stations, they don't even show the stations on the interactive map that is now the only way of finding schedules. Here's whwere Aurora GO station should be:

A large part of the reason that the TTC bus network is so well used is that it is set up to conveniently bring people to and from subway stations. Local buses may not be that attractive on their own but the subway often is and that last-mile ridership can provide a baseline to support higher frequencies which in turn attract more ridership that isn't heading to/from the station. YRT should be setting up routes with clockface schedules to/from GO train stations to start building ridership.

 

[ShonTron]

This is exactly how Oakville Transit operated for many years – have its buses converge at Oakville GO Station to meet the train arrivals and departures. They had it easy with the hourly off-peak trains scheduled to arrive from Union and depart for Union within a few minutes of each other at Oakville, but it still works with GO trains going to half-hourly.

You’d think that Unionville and Aurora stations could be useful local transit pulse locations.

 

[reaperexpress]

This is exactly how Oakville Transit operated for many years – have its buses converge at Oakville GO Station to meet the train arrivals and departures. They had it easy with the hourly off-peak trains scheduled to arrive from Union and depart for Union within a few minutes of each other at Oakville, but it still works with GO trains going to half-hourly.

You’d think that Unionville and Aurora stations could be useful local transit pulse locations.

Exactly. Unionville and Aurora are very easy pulse locations because everyone at Aurora is heading south on the train, and most at Unionville are probably heading south as well.

There's only one YRT route that actually goes into Unionville station, route 8 Kennedy, but it is not even remotely timed to meet the trains.

There is also GO bus service to Unionville until 3am but the YRT bus service ends at 10pm on weekdays and 9pm on weekends.

 

[anb]

This is exactly how Oakville Transit operated for many years – have its buses converge at Oakville GO Station to meet the train arrivals and departures. They had it easy with the hourly off-peak trains scheduled to arrive from Union and depart for Union within a few minutes of each other at Oakville, but it still works with GO trains going to half-hourly.

You’d think that Unionville and Aurora stations could be useful local transit pulse locations.

This is why Brampton is arguably the best local agency in the GTA that did it completely right. They pretty much integrated their local transit system with GO. Look at Mount Pleasant or Bramalea for example, they have pretty much made their schedules meet up with train arrivals, while at the same time not being a burden for any local bus to GO bus rider connections as well. They also treat these stations like their own terminals which benefits a lot more. And on top there’s connections to the Zum network for all 3 Brampton stations, and 2 more outside of it + the Airport(ish) itself as a bonus.

Imagine if Viva were to even do that alone as in connect to GO stations (outside of RHC/Langstaff). Viva Blue could be extended easily to East Gwillimbury, and Purple can actually go inside Unionville proper.

Then the local connections. For example why are they treating Rutherford as if GO is still a commuter only thing? Their bus loop isn’t even used as much aside from like 1 or 2 routes off peak and it finally gets used during peak. That’s the problem right there. YRT needs to stop thinking that its still the 90s for once and actually learn a thing or 2 from their neighboring regions.

 

[futurebound]

Viva Blue could be extended easily to East Gwillimbury

They are planning for that, and it is even mentioned in the Transit Initiatives PDF that customers have requested they service EG GO with curbside Viva stops. Unfortunately, YRT seems to just be a massive sloth - only moving ever so slowly.

 

[smallspy]

This is why Brampton is arguably the best local agency in the GTA that did it completely right. They pretty much integrated their local transit system with GO. Look at Mount Pleasant or Bramalea for example, they have pretty much made their schedules meet up with train arrivals, while at the same time not being a burden for any local bus to GO bus rider connections as well. They also treat these stations like their own terminals which benefits a lot more. And on top there’s connections to the Zum network for all 3 Brampton stations, and 2 more outside of it + the Airport(ish) itself as a bonus.

As good as Brampton has figured out the timing at the GO stations (and yes, they have got it quite well figured out).....

That is absolutely not the reason why Brampton is the best of the surrounding transit agencies of the GTA.

They have built their network to serve their local ridership, have simplified their route network to focus on trunk routes serving major corridors, and - most importantly - have increased frequencies to the point that it is now convenient to get around most the city without a car.

What they have done with the connecting routes at GO stations is laudable and has absolutely done wonders to build ridership, but don't kid yourself - that is not where the main increases in ridership have come from.

Dan

 

[ShonTron]

As good as Brampton has figured out the timing at the GO stations (and yes, they have got it quite well figured out).....

That is absolutely not the reason why Brampton is the best of the surrounding transit agencies of the GTA.

They have built their network to serve their local ridership, have simplified their route network to focus on trunk routes serving major corridors, and - most importantly - have increased frequencies to the point that it is now convenient to get around most the city without a car.

What they have done with the connecting routes at GO stations is laudable and has absolutely done wonders to build ridership, but don't kid yourself - that is not where the main increases in ridership have come from.

Dan

And it wasn’t until Metrolinx finally built a decent station layout at Bramalea (the fourth station layout in its 50-year history) that Brampton Transit was able to make it a fully functioning terminal too. Before, Steeles buses loaded on street.

 

[Undead]

This is why Brampton is arguably the best local agency in the GTA that did it completely right. They pretty much integrated their local transit system with GO.

I believe DRT is the system built around getting people to GO stations while being not so great for travel within Durham.

 

[APTA-2048]

I believe DRT is the system built around getting people to GO stations while being not so great for travel within Durham.

And with the latest cuts (reallocations), getting to the GO Station has now gotten worse in Pickering and Whitby. I’d say Ajax too.

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

There are times where I say what if YRT properly designed routes and built up frequencies on trunk corridors.

But I also have reservations that it would transform into ridership due to how many residents own at least 2 cars per household and the fact that there’s quite a fair number of wealthy and white collared residents who will never choose public transit even if given the convenience (Southern York Region).

York Region is not Brampton or Durham Region.

I know there are problems with YRT-GO connections but the fact is that frequency on GO lines are still dismal and that the GO stations are middle of nowhere and require a car for the last mile. People will actually drive from King to VMC to take the subway due to convenience.


On a side note, if there is one route that YRT should beef up service and extend service hours it would be 88 Bathurst. It runs through huge subdivisions north of the 407. I always encounter people shockingly discovering that the last bus for the night is 11:30pm at Finch. It should be running at least until 2am since it terminates at a TTC station. If anything all subway connecting YRT routes should be running until the closure of the subway.

 

[Sandpit]

If anything all subway connecting YRT routes should be running until the closure of the subway.

And the two routes that are essentially extensions of the subway (20 and 98/99) should run overnight. Unforuntately, judging from the feedback for the annual service initiatives, I might literally be the only person to suggest this.

 

[Sandpit]

there’s quite a fair number of wealthy and white collared residents who will never choose public transit even if given the convenience (Southern York Region).

York Region is not Brampton or Durham Region.

Airport travel might be an exception. Design routes to connect to GO Route 40, which is surprisingly popular, especially considering how it's mostly promoted via word-of-mouth.
Possibly downtown travel too, if/when parking gets increasing scarce due to redevelpment.

Why isn't York Region like Durham Region (aside from a much higher Asian population)?

 

[Rainforest]

York Region isn't really interested in the transit ridership growth. Maybe, except the Yonge corridor that has a decent service, and the area around the Vaughan Centre subway station.

For the rest of the system, YRT's real mandate is:
- To provide some basic level of mobility for residents who do not drive for any reason.
- To do so with as little public subsidy as possible.

With that mindset, no surprise they are organizing the service in the simplest way possible, and not looking for any tweaks that could improve the ridership.

Many routes are infrequent and the schedules are not clockface. One can argue that every 20 min is better than every 18 min, or every 30 min is better than every 27 min. Then the riders can memorize the minute and expect the bus at the same minute of every hour. But the planners don't care, they base the schedule on the roundtrip time + terminal layover, and if that duration doesn't blend with clockface departures - too bad.

They used to have a very popular VIVA Purple route, from Markham all they way to York U. The demand was so good that they had to run additional buses between Richmond Hill Centre and York U at peak periods. Now, VIVA Purple terminates at RHC, and you have to make 2 transfers to get to York U: first to VIVA Orange at RHC, and then to the subway at Vaughan Centre. Part of the reason is that York U wanted the buses out of their Commons terminal once the subway opened.

But, noone prohibited YRT from running VIVA Purple to the Pioneer Village station, where they have a terminal. Many York U students would be able to walk from there directly to their classes. For those who need to get further south, there would be 1 transfer in place instead of 2. However, YRT opted for the simplest route structure: one VIVA route on Hwy 7 East, another on Hwy 7 West, regardless of the trip generators.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

I’m genuinely of the opinion that the most reasonable Viva Hwy 7 structure at this point would be to run Purple to VMC and wholly eliminate orange, with Zum providing all rapid service west of Vaughan (maybe run all the way to Yonge via Centre st honestly). The fare integration we’ve got coming, for all its oddities, will finally fix double fare problem removing buses from the university caused (which was promised from the beginning mind you)…

 

[reaperexpress]

There are times where I say what if YRT properly designed routes and built up frequencies on trunk corridors.

But I also have reservations that it would transform into ridership due to how many residents own at least 2 cars per household and the fact that there’s quite a fair number of wealthy and white collared residents who will never choose public transit even if given the convenience (Southern York Region).

York Region is not Brampton or Durham Region.

I know there are problems with YRT-GO connections but the fact is that frequency on GO lines are still dismal and that the GO stations are middle of nowhere and require a car for the last mile. People will actually drive from King to VMC to take the subway due to convenience.


On a side note, if there is one route that YRT should beef up service and extend service hours it would be 88 Bathurst. It runs through huge subdivisions north of the 407. I always encounter people shockingly discovering that the last bus for the night is 11:30pm at Finch. It should be running at least until 2am since it terminates at a TTC station. If anything all subway connecting YRT routes should be running until the closure of the subway.

The demographics and urban structure of York Region are not that different from Brampton or Durham. They're all suburban municipalities with a wide range of incomes. Sure there are some percentage of people in York Region, who currently say that they'd never take transit, but if I still lived in YR I'd probably say that too because YRT's service is not a practical way to travel around. I was in York Region recently and considered taking Viva since my origin and destination were both near Viva stops, but it apparently would have taken twice as long as driving so I just drove. If even people along Viva routes don't have useful transit service then it's no wonder that York Region residents discount transit as a competitive option.