VIA Rail

[littlewill1166]

Since when is VIA in the business of providing social services? If the bleeding heart argument is there, why only Sudbury? How many other towns should VIA service, and how many billions do you think the government should commit to that cause?

The former CEO of VIA said something along the lines of VIA being a crown corporation and having a mandate to maximize the utilization of its assets for the benefit of the public. VIA Rail has a Public Service Obligation to operate trains on the routes under Schedule 1 of SOR/89-488 (Order Varying Certain National Transportation Agency Orders Respecting Railway Companies).

 

[kEiThZ]

I think virtually every populated place in Canada should have passenger rail.

1) Why? To what purpose and end?

2) Define "populated".

3) Define "passenger rail".

If we're talking about sending up a once a week tourist train to Sudbury, there's probably a business case for that....

I don't particularly care about finances.

That's pretty obvious. But the government (and most of the public) thinks funds should be allocated to ensure maximum benefit for the most taxpayers.

These are political choices and there is plenty of money here if there was a government aggressive enough to take something from mining, logging, and petrochemical companies for a change.

Ah, I see another cost that could be cut...

And none of those cuts would change the reality that there's no rational business case for regular (daily or better) rail service to Sudbury.

 

[kEiThZ]

The former CEO of VIA said something along the lines of VIA being a crown corporation and having a mandate to maximize the utilization of its assets for the benefit of the public. VIA Rail has a Public Service Obligation to operate trains on the routes under Schedule 1 of SOR/89-488 (Order Varying Certain National Transportation Agency Orders Respecting Railway Companies).

Right. They are obligated to operate specific routes in the public interest and allocated resources to do that. Many of the stops on these routes are far less connected than Sudbury is. Sudbury is about as connected as most cities of similar size.

If we're going to argue federal investment is required in communities of a similar context, there's several corridors that should be ahead: Calgary-Edmonton, Regina-Saskatoon, Vancouver-Kelowna, Halifax-Moncton, etc.

I'd argue that a more sensible investment is GO/Ontario Northland providing regular bus service to Barrie to connect to the GO network, or bus service to North Bay to connect with a reinvigorated Ontario Northland Train.

 

[kEiThZ]

I was encouraged by the comment that a first task will be to assess curves and the potential for easing some. This strikes me as a desirable sanity check especially for the Peterboro- Perth segment. There is an impact on both cost and timekeeping here, and as one who just can’t shake reservations about the route, this is useful and possibly reassuring analysis even if it takes some time. Likewise, it seems that tunnel sharing with REM is not dead yet.
Whether it’s strategy or unintentional outcome, it’s beginning to feel like this work might just roll on to the point where everyone is so gradually acclimatised that it leads to a decision to proceed.....

- Paul

What's sad is that this should all have been done years ago. 4 year term and they couldn't even fund the detailed engineerings, market definition and EA work needed to be done.

That said, this JPT does seem to be taking the bull by the horns and proceeding in a methodical fashion to make the idea more implementable. The route and station scrub should help them nail down costs and timelines a bit better. And thankfully, that's only 5-6 months away.

 

[mdrejhon]

March 2020 is the more interesting date. Target for getting the routing and stations scrubbed.

For the routing and railfan info perhaps! Early deets, deets, deets, deets.

But for the "IT IS HAPPENING! YAY!" decision, that's 2021 ?

 

[kEiThZ]

For the routing and railfan info perhaps! Early deets, deets, deets, deets.

But for the "IT IS HAPPENING! YAY!" decision, that's 2021 ?

Who knows if this government survives till then. That's why I'm so pissed that Trudeau couldn't at least get all the studies done during his first term. The big $4 billion dollar price tag (which is bound to go up) is going to become a massive political football. And a minority government is going to have a tough time justifying expending political capital on that. As it stands, best case scenario is probably something like 2026 before service starts.

At least getting the studies and EA done is something I guess.....

 

[CapitalSeven]

It drives me a little nuts the way folks on forums talk about Ford does this and Trudeau does that as though they individually sit and design transit lines, social programs, windmill farms etc. They don't. Government is big, processes are complex, and this stuff is not all easy. VIA is a crown corporation. They are moving at their speed.

 

[crs1026]

At the risk of sounding naive, one has to believe that the Cons are holding strategy sessions on “how to win hearts and minds of urban voters in the east”. I’m not sure they will oppose this project when the next election inevitably arrives. It’s not that expensive.

There’s no doubt that Ottawa (collectively) is ragging the puck on this one. The Liberals, having been cut back to a minority, certainly aren’t going to make big splashy announcements that favour Ontario and Quebec. It’s frustrating, but a couple years more of study may be the only way to save this proposal.

Getting all this paperwork done is an interesting bit of “thin edge of the wedge”.... at some point, if the media has done enough talking about this, people may just assume it’s happening and not notice the actual announcement. It would be ironic if this project were kicked off in a low-key way, ie the direct opposite style to a DelDuca transit photo op binge.

I also have to wonder if anyone is quietly looking at HFR West. A Lethbridge-Calgary-Edmonton rail service might soften some blows right now. The economic case may actually be tolerable to supportive.

- Paul

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

At the risk of sounding naive, one has to believe that the Cons are holding strategy sessions on “how to win hearts and minds of urban voters in the east”. I’m not sure they will oppose this project when the next election inevitably arrives. It’s not that expensive.

Their rural base will be against it and raise a stink (like they did with the Toronto to London stretch provincially). Not sure if they see it as an urban vote-getter in any case.

AoD

 

[Northern Light]

Their rural base will be against it and raise a stink (like they did with the Toronto to London stretch provincially). Not sure if they see it as an urban vote-getter in any case.

AoD

Rural voters (tied to the Tory base vote) don't have many other places to go electorally; if shaving off a small percentage costs a seat or two, that could be very worthwhile if swapped for a dozen or more '905' seats and 2-3 in the City proper.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Rural voters (tied to the Tory base vote) don't have many other places to go electorally; if shaving off a small percentage costs a seat or two, that could be very worthwhile if swapped for a dozen or more '905' seats and 2-3 in the City proper.

I doubt it is an issue that will get them votes in the city either - vs bread and cutter tax cuts and tough-on-crime policies. And VIA is one of those things that they would dearly love to get rid of as a government enterprise if they could get away with it.

AoD

 

[crs1026]

Their rural base will be against it and raise a stink (like they did with the Toronto to London stretch provincially). Not sure if they see it as an urban vote-getter in any case.

I'm not so sure the rural base were against it per se, they were against new lines that gobble up farmland. Most folks (in Ontario anyways) realise the highways are full and this will help. The Ford government hasn't had that much difficulty getting their heads around transit, they are waking up to the reality that new and bigger highways cost far, far more.
People from rural Alberta tell me they resist going to Calgary because 'the traffic is awful'. Alberta has sold LRT to its electorate. It's largely perception, and it's all relative.

- Paul

 

[Northern Light]

Via’s high frequency rail link from Toronto to Quebec raises safety concerns

Anti-crash system required in U.S. and recommended for Canada not part of planned passenger train link

www.thestar.com

Article highlighting the absence of PTC from VIA's HFR proposal. Also Paul Langan of HSR note is on them about the proposed speed.

 

[kEiThZ]

Government is big, processes are complex, and this stuff is not all easy. VIA is a crown corporation. They are moving at their speed.

Government is big and slow. But this is not the issue here. The issue here is that the Harper government and then the Trudeau government never prioritized even funding proper study of the idea. Why $70 million for a study announced just 8 months before the election. What the hell were they doing for the previous 3 years? They ran on building infrastructure in 2015 on deficit financing with "small deficits" of $10 billion per year for three years. They couldn't find $70 million to fund that study out of the $80+ billion in deficits they ended up running in that term?

Their rural base will be against it and raise a stink (like they did with the Toronto to London stretch provincially).

I think the bigger issue with SWO farmers was the severing of farms and loss of land. There's probably less of that in this case since it's largely using an existing corridor and going through forest.

I also have to wonder if anyone is quietly looking at HFR West. A Lethbridge-Calgary-Edmonton rail service might soften some blows right now. The economic case may actually be tolerable to supportive.

Calgary-Edmonton beyond a doubt has a business case. It's probably as strong as Toronto-Ottawa. Lethbridge would be a good bonus.

 

[kEiThZ]

Via’s high frequency rail link from Toronto to Quebec raises safety concerns

Anti-crash system required in U.S. and recommended for Canada not part of planned passenger train link

www.thestar.com

Article highlighting the absence of PTC from VIA's HFR proposal. Also Paul Langan of HSR note is on them about the proposed speed.

Screw Paul Lanagan and his purist BS. I'd rather have HFR by 2030 than HSR never. He can whine all he wants, but the bulk of the public and the political class is just not supportive of the idea of spending tens of billions on HSR. We may get there after we build HFR. This is what Paul Lanagan doesn't get.