VIA Rail

[littlewill1166]

Well as normal, our Cabinet is basically just a tale of 3 cities, Montreal, Toronto, and Ottawa. Needless to say any improvements to SW Ontario for VIA are a no-go. London and Windsor both got shut out of Cabinet posts but somehow Halton managed 3.

The conservatives are in power at Queen's Park with a bunch of rural ministers, yet what happened to High Speed Rail?

Not completely on topic, but a regional bus network is coming: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5360592

 

[smallspy]

I swear that VIA already has some type of GPS based quasi-PTC, speed enforcement technology already (probably doesn't work for signals though).

VIA has a GPS system that is installed on their locomotives, yes.

It is not capable of being used for enforcement or supervision of the train crews vis-a-vis how they operate the train, however.

Thus, is has no resemblance whatsoever to PTC.

Dan

 

[littlewill1166]

VIA has a GPS system that is installed on their locomotives, yes.

It is not capable of being used for enforcement or supervision of the train crews vis-a-vis how they operate the train, however.

Thus, is has no resemblance whatsoever to PTC.

Dan

Doesn't it warn/track the train crews when they're overspeeding or something, or is it just a GPS tracker?

 

[smallspy]

Doesn't it warn/track the train crews when they're overspeeding or something, or is it just a GPS tracker?

The speedometers in the cab are there for that, and they're far more accurate than any GPS feed.

In fact, the crews don't even see the outputs from the GPS system at all.

Dan

 

[littlewill1166]

The speedometers in the cab are there for that, and they're far more accurate than any GPS feed.

In fact, the crews don't even see the outputs from the GPS system at all.

Dan

Uhhh, that doesn't sound very safe. At least VIA has at least two engineers in the cab instead of one like on Amtrak for their corridor routes.

 

[YCMYHM]

Uhhh, that doesn't sound very safe. At least VIA has at least two engineers in the cab instead of one like on Amtrak for their corridor routes.

Why would the crew need to see a GPS feed? They all know the track they run on.

 

[littlewill1166]

Why would the crew need to see a GPS feed? They all know the track they run on.

No, I thought VIA had a GPS based system indicating the maximum track speed to the crew and that also warns them when they exceed it.

 

[dowlingm]

Uhhh, that doesn't sound very safe. At least VIA has at least two engineers in the cab instead of one like on Amtrak for their corridor routes.

Amtrak 501 had two in the cab. VIA 92 had three. Numbers do not safety guarantee

 

[dowlingm]

I have been saying for years that it is silly that there is such low passenger rail outside of the Corridor. HFR outside of the corridor at this point does not make sense. Turning all trains into daily each way, would be a great start. Adding a line between Calgary and Edmonton would also make sense. If they were to bring back the old CP Dominion route, that would also make sense.

Doing these 3 things alone would show the West that Ottawa cares and might win them a few seats next election(whenever it may be).

The West would do no such thing. Ottawa bought them a pipeline and the Libs were swept in AB. I remember a Conservative MP in BC deriding the Canadian a few years ago *when his riding was being served by it*

 

[littlewill1166]

Amtrak 501 had two in the cab. VIA 92 had three. Numbers do not safety guarantee

On VIA 92 there was a new engineer in training. On Amtrak 501, the crew were unfamiliar with the route.

 

[robmausser]

Amtrak 501 had two in the cab. VIA 92 had three. Numbers do not safety guarantee

In fact, I believe a contributing factor to the accident was that the engineers were distracted by the 3rd person in the cab, which was a trainee.

 

[kEiThZ]

I sincerely wish that VIA launches a study on HFR for Edmonton-Calgary-Lethbridge. I may not agree with most of the complaints of Albertans. But I sympathize with the view that they feel a bit hard done by with having to contribute so much to the federation and get a lot less in return federally. Toronto and the GTA have a similar imbalance with Ontario and Canada. A massive VIA project that connects their province better would vastly improve the image of the federal government there. It's supportable on political grounds alone. Probably supportable on fiscal grounds too. Worth doing a similar in-depth study as what is being done for Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal-Quebec.

 

[robmausser]

On VIA 92 there was a new engineer in training. On Amtrak 501, the crew were unfamiliar with the route.

Plus on 501, PTC that was supposed to be installed was delayed.

 

[Urban Sky]

In fact, I believe a contributing factor to the accident was that the engineers were distracted by the 3rd person in the cab, which was a trainee.

Given the absence of in-cab voice recordings available for the Burlington derailment, this is mere speculation:

2.8 In-cab voice/video recorders and forward-facing video cameras

The dynamics and interaction between the 3 VIA crew members could not be accurately determined because there was no in-cab voice recording. The absence of this valuable information left a number of questions unanswered:

Did the crew actually call the signal as required?
Who called the signal?
Was the signal correctly identified?
Who acknowledged the signal?
Was the correct signal acknowledged?
Was there some distraction in the cab?

[...]

Railway Investigation Report R12T0038 - Transportation Safety Board of Canada

Main-track derailment of Via Rail Canada Inc. passenger train no. 92 at mile 33.23, Canadian National, Oakville Subdivision, Aldershot, Ontario on 26 February 2012

tsb.gc.ca

 

[crs1026]

In fact, I believe a contributing factor to the accident was that the engineers were distracted by the 3rd person in the cab, which was a trainee.

This is speculation. There are other equally plausible theories about why none of the three people in the cab recognized the diverging signal indication in time. I won't voice them, because we will never know.

The point is, as a result of a number of incidents involving freight and passenger trains, Congress mandated broad adoption of PTC across the US. As with most things in North American railroading, the technology is a "vanilla" product that has to be implemented consistently across the continent, because so much of our railroad traffic is potentially crossing whatever regional lines one might dream up. That is likely true for VIA in the end also, since even HFR assumes some minimal interface with existing freight lines in some locations..

PTC is not ATO (as one might experience it on an urban subway) but it's a step towards that. And it unquestionably adds a level of safety over human only operations.

The problem is, so far it doesn't work reliably enough.

Some form of PTC/ATO will eventually come to Canada, but at this point we are still in the hands of our trained crews and their overall safety system. HFR would be a high priority when the product is ready. However I don't see that as a reason to delay or criticise the HFR plan, especially when the speeds proposed are in the same range as we run today on mixed freight.

- Paul