lrt's friend
Active Member
I have heard this argument before. However, when we compare the value of REM versus VIA HFR, we need to compare passenger kms instead of just raw passenger numbers. This puts things into better and a more fair perspective.
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VIA Rail
- Thread starter ehlow
- Start date
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
Not necessarily, the equation for calculating value is far more complicated than distance alone. The impacts of encouraging people to drive into downtown and leave their cars there all day have significantly more of an effect on productivity (one person doing their work on a train to Toronto is definitely better than the productivity lost from that person driving or flying, but at the same time, driving induces congestion, which affects far more people that may have no other choice but to drive), the environment, and the cost of doing business than someone choosing to drive to Toronto instead of taking the train.
I'm not saying that VIA HFR isn't important, I'm just trying to say that both have their place and it's unfair to claim that one is inherently better than another while only analyzing one characteristic.
kEiThZ
Superstar
I'm not worried. Figure out Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal. The Quebec government will find a way to facilitate Quebec City-Montreal.
robmausser
Senior Member
Care less is fine because an extra 15 minutes to navigate around the mountain to get to Quebec City, already a low priority destination on the entire HFR network, and one of the fastest portions, is not a huge deal.
littlewill1166
Active Member
I was thinking, maybe the feds could use Quebec-Montreal as a Trojan horse for energy east.
SFO-YYZ
Active Member
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Not to mention that REM is already a shovels in the ground project that is well underway. Most recent project updates from CPQDi indicates that the south shore segment, between Brossard and MTL central station, is set for completion in 2021. The rest of the system gradually opening in the 2022 to 2024 time frame. I've spoken to lots of folks in and around Montreal area, and there is a real sense of pride in the project especially now that most people are able to see real infrastructure going up around the city - Eduard Mont-Petit station, Mcgill Station, Highway 40 elevated tracks - all proceeding at good a pace.
Where as VIA's HFR barely registers in people's minds and god knows when it'll actually get funding beyond design work.
crs1026
Superstar
UK passenger-rail expert Vernon Barker named as project director for VIA’s HFR plan
www.theglobeandmail.com
- Paul
U.K. passenger-rail expert Vernon Barker named as project director for Via’s High Frequency Rail plan
Baker will lead the team developing a multibillion-dollar plan for high-frequency rail between Quebec City and Toronto
www.theglobeandmail.com
- Paul
lrt's friend
Active Member
I believe part of the current HFR study is how HFR will interact with REM.
p_xavier
Active Member
For about 600 passengers a day between QC-MTL. A billion $ for 600 passengers a day, passengers who already have a service being provided that is underused.
robmausser
Senior Member
One could make the argument that underuse is because it is currently not fast or frequent enough to be lucrative to use.
The HFR plan for Montreal-Quebec cuts an hour off of a 3ish hour trip. Thats substantial.
45 minutes if you now include this routing around Mont Royal, but still substantial.
SaugeenJunction
Senior Member
VIA starting the process of upgrading its Montreal and Toronto maintenance facilities for the new fleet:
201910009 - Market Sounding: Montreal and Toronto Maintenance Facilities Modernization
201910009 - Market Sounding: Montreal and Toronto Maintenance Facilities Modernization
p_xavier
Active Member
Orléans Express which is as fast and is direct has cut frequency so I doubt that VIA will manage to turn things around. Built it and they might not come in this case.
SamStar
New Member
VIA has had a significant success and increasing ridership on the TOR-OTT route following multiple frequency improvement. I don't see why a similar success could not be achieved between MTL and QC with a HFR system. More frequent departures and a shorter travel time will surely contribute to its success.
tmlittle
Active Member
We won't get anywhere if we treat transit purely as a response to pent up demand. Transit induces demand just like auto infrastructure does, and the better service is the more demand is created for it. Frequent intercity transit between two important cities is a basic aspect of infrastructure that you don't see people regularly question the existence of, except in North America. The job of today's transit projects is to create the ridership patterns of the 2030s and 2040s, not to wait for ridership and then build after, or ridership will never happen.
nephersir7
Active Member
I wonder at which point it would be worth it for VIA to acquire exo's brand new maintenance facilities in Montreal. Maybe if electrification happens.