Bordercollie
Senior Member
2Ft Longer than the P42DC.
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VIA Rail
- Thread starter ehlow
- Start date
KevinT
Active Member
It's easy when the only thing you customize is the paint and fabric colors.
Urban Sky
Senior Member
And that was exactly the point of chosing Siemens: VIA needed a design which was off-the-shelf and proven to minimize the risk of delays they couldn't afford while faced with the reality of operating a rapidly decaying fleet...
KevinT
Active Member
And good on them for doing so!
My point wasn't to knock Via, but to highlight how radically different this procurement was from the streetcars. Custom width, custom gauge, custom voltage, insanely small turning radius, insanely small overhang, additional power truck, oh we need pantos and poles, plus custom ramps, oops not to those specs though, please redo the custom ramps... What do you mean you can't make them lemon scented?
Urban Sky
Senior Member
First off, even under exaggerated assumptions of 100 people per car and 100 kg per person, you would have only 10
Anyways, may I ask you what intercity rail services still use trainsets with a locomotive on both ends? Granted, that was standard for the first generation of HSR trainsets (e.g. Advanced Passenger Train, Alstom's TGVs, ICE 1, Eurostar e300), but with the notable exceptions of France and Sweden, they more or less all have been superseded by either locomotive-and-cab-car concepts (e.g. ICE 2, Railjet, Class 91 with Driving Van Trailer or virtually any intercity train across Europe and beyond) or EMUs (ICE 3/T/4, Alstom's AGV, Eurostar e320), whereas Japan's Shinkansen seems to have never bothered with locomotive-hauled trains...
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Garuda
Active Member
I should add that the designer in me doesn’t like the red maple leaf slapped on to the side. I’m certain some bureaucrat was “we need a maple leaf to people know we’re Canadian”. I don’t like it. DB, SNCF, NS, and PKP don’t use their national flags and colours. Branding and visual identity is different from national identity. The yellow, black, grey look great on this fleet.
for those wondering whomever worked on the visual identity of the new VIA train sets certainly took note of Pantone 2021 colours of the year: https://www.pantone.com/color-of-the-year-2021
With the HP1 updated the fleet is looking very good. Will look better once the whole flagship Canadian is complete.
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shammyjammy
New Member
They should've just had the maple leaf beside the Via text like their logo.
smallspy
Senior Member
For a guy who seems to follow Progressive Railroading and the other industry rags, you seem to be painfully unaware of the two massive orders currently underway for Austria's and the Czech railways ordering - *GASP* - trainsets equipped with cab cars. Austria's even ordering overnight trains that will be cab-car equipped.
Oh, and Caltrain would also like a word, too.
Dan
roger1818
Senior Member
Agreed, though the metric unit is spelt tonne. One ton is approximately equal to 0.9 tonnes.
What is the mass of an empty Venture car? The link you provided says the Charger locomotive "weighs just 271,000 pounds" but it doesn't mention the mass of the Venture cars. I suspect this is because each car will be different depending on how it is configured, but it would be nice to have a ballpark or range.
Interesting. I agree there isn't a power issue with a single locomotive. The worry I have with using cab cars more has to do with the physics of pushing a train. On straight track, if a car derails while being pushed, the slight offset resulting from the derailment will create an outward lateral force, pushing the car away from the centre of the track. When being pulled, that lateral force will be inward and pull the car back to the centre of the track, tending to keep it aligned on the centre of the track.
I would assume they have safety measures in place that will detect a derailment like this and automatically have the locomotive slow down when pushing, putting the train in tension, thus pulling the cars back to the centre. Otherwise, if unchecked, the situation could quickly escalate (especially at higher speeds) and could result in the train accordioning.
Regarding Brightline, my guess is that since it was a small order (only 5 trainsets), the NRE cost of designing a cab car exceeded the cost of purchasing 5 extra locomotives. Also, I gather the plan is to eventually expand the trainsets up to 10 cars, so maybe they would need a second locomotive then.
roger1818
Senior Member
crs1026
Superstar
I know multiple people who complain bitterly about the rough ride in the last LRC/HEP coach, caused by those trailing units causing the slack to run in when the throttle is opened, and then run out again during braking.
And, interestingly, I know of VIA engineers who say they isolate the tail end locomotive and operate with just the leading unit on line, in the interest of a better riding qualiity and better control of slack action.
As to comments about the paint scheme and maple leafs - it's only paint, people. Probably the least material thing to comment on with the new equipment. With no impact whatsoever on how well the trains work. And whether it meets your artistic tastes, it's a fairly benign treatment in a country where federal funding always results in placement of Government logos....why would our taxpayer funded trains be the exception to obsessive branding of anything paid for by Ottawa? Be happy there are no wraps with politicians' faces on the side of those trains. Canada is a nanny state, we might as well celebrate the fact. I like the look, myself.
- Paul
PS - Some people scrutinizing the many on-line photos of the recently delivered train are debating whether there was accidental overspray of yellow paint on the car roofs - hard to tell from photos. I didn't see the trains and don't have a position, but if you have a good shot of your own......
EnviroTO
Senior Member
At least it looks like they tried to have it fit in. The way they put full waving flags on the LRC coaches and renaissance coaches looks ridiculous.
Yes, they should simplify their logo to be VIA* where * is maple leaf. They seem to think they need to spell out VIA Rail Canada with a maple leaf flag flying off the d on Canada as part of their logo.
kEiThZ
Superstar
I'm going to bet that now that the NRE is done and cab cars are an option, Brightline will eventually buy cab cars and reconfigure all their trains. Ordering cab cars would let them double the number of trains they have without ordering a single locomotive, while adding seats/amenity space to a trainset. Would let them substantially improve frequency from the current hourly that they do.
roger1818
Senior Member
Maybe, but so far they haven't. Brightline's "Orlando expansion will add 11 locomotives and 20 coaches, with an option for 30 more coaches." Considering they run 4 car trains (1 business, 2 coach and 1 baggage/coach), that is 2 locomotives per train, plus a spare. This order will double their fleet size from 5 to 10 trains.
I guess the option could include cab cars, but to double the number of trains to 20, but they would need 20 cab cars, 10 more business cars, and 10 more baggage/coach cars (they will only have 10 of each of the latter 2) for a total of 40 cars (not 30 the option allows for) if they want all services on all trains. They will also only have singe track from Cocoa to Orlando (though it is being built with future double tracking in mind), so getting more than hourly service will be expensive. I think they would rather put that time and money towards their Tampa extension.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Brightline is definitely a ways off from increasing frequencies. But after their extensions to Tampa, this is a pretty obvious path for service expansion.