VIA Rail

[cplchanb]

How is it a false narrative if the new schedule accounts for delays and more closely reflects service...??

because its trying to excuse delays as part of the schedule rather than trying to fix the issue. They will never be able to gain more ridership if they ignore the root cause of the delays. If they are to compete with
intercity buses in the BC/Alberta region as mentioned earlier, the first thing they need to do is address the causes of delays instead of hiding it.

Why were they able to adhere to the old schedule 20 years ago and have it deteriorate over time?

 

[Urban Sky]

because its trying to excuse delays as part of the schedule rather than trying to fix the issue. They will never be able to gain more ridership if they ignore the root cause of the delays. If they are to compete with
intercity buses in the BC/Alberta region as mentioned earlier, the first thing they need to do is address the causes of delays instead of hiding it.

Why were they able to adhere to the old schedule 20 years ago and have it deteriorate over time?

Assuming that you acknowledge the limits of VIA’s mandate, how would you “address the causes of delays” if you were its CEO? Otherwise, I would kindly ask you to continue this discussion in the “Transportation Policy in Canada” thread...

 

[micheal_can]

With The Canadian continuing its shortened Vancouver-Winnipeg run (removing Toronto - Sudbury entirely), what do people think the post-covid future of this train is? As has been mentioned, VIA's Corporate Plan notes that the current business model is "is no longer sustainable", but it seems unlikely VIA would cancel this train outright. I say this because the optics would likely be poor for the government to cancel the best-known service in Western Canada as inter-city bus services are cancelled and as the MMIWG notes the importance of intercity transit, plus with the carbon tax increasing it doesn't look great to remove transit options (even though almost no one actually uses The Canadian for regular inter-city travel). I could be wrong on this, but it seems like something people would use to get upset about, even if they have no intention of ever stepping on a train.

Many users on here seem much more knowledgeable than me on this, so assuming VIA keeps this service, is there any possibility of:

• Permanently breaking the train into different segments (e.g. Vancouver - Edmonton, Edmonton - Winnipeg, Winnipeg - Toronto). This would likely help OTP, but could decrease international tourists going from Toronto to Vancouver in Prestige Class
• Using the CP route from Toronto to Winnipeg. Transport Canada seems to suggest this route has seen declining traffic relative to the CN route and it would serve Thunder Bay, which has been requesting the return of train service. Not sure if VIA is mandated to serve many of the smaller communities along the CN line, but they could possibly do this using the Budd Cars from the Sudbury - White River train.
• Using other tracks in some places (looking at old timetables it looks like at one point VIA ran service from Winnipeg to Saskatoon via Regina instead of Melville). This seems rather unlikely, especially given part of the tracks are now owned by a small short-line railway.
• Working out an agreement with CN to help pay some capital costs of lengthening sidings (maybe in exchange for better OTP)

...or any other possibilities?

If they substantially lowered the cost more people would use it. If nothing else the Canadian has iconic views and is truly an experience but the cost is insane. I looked at taking it years ago for the experience but I had no desire to pay over 5000 dollars each way for a proper bed as opposed to sleeping in my seat.

It should be extended to Halifax from Vancouver (with no transfer in Toronto or Quebec). Tying it in with the ocean would make it truly a national experience.

If you break it up into smaller segments it would be a death knell for the train. Those who take the train take it for the same reasons they take The Ocean or the Rocky Mountaineer. It is a land cruise, not a commuter service.

Those who take it, know it is a long trip but take it for the experience. If they wanted a faster travel time they would fly for a fraction of the cost.

There was already a Vancouver - Edmonton train before Covid shut things down. Splitting the line up makes sense. Having a thru train once a week for the land yacht crowd. Splitting it up into the chunks at Edmonton and Winnipeg would allow the service to grow. As demand for parts of it grow, it may see more service added. It can also allow for other services to be added to those terminals and potentially grow Via outside of the Corridor.

 

[trebello]

Good point @micheal_can re: the Edmonton to Vancouver segment. Summer 2019 when I had to travel from Jasper to Vancouver I purposely aimed to get the train that started in Edmonton (instead of one coming from Toronto) in hopes it wouldn't be delayed (and it wasn't). VIA seems to have done a great job at figuring out solutions available within their control to improve service. I was mostly curious if changing routing is even an option for VIA. Not wanting to get bogged down in discussion on general rail policy (which is best had in another thread), what options does VIA currently have within their control to make changes to The Canadian so it has a more "sustainable" business model? Are they limited to schedule/equipment changes or could they do something like negotiate to use CP tracks from Sudbury to Winnipeg (or White River to Winnipeg rather), if this would even help. Similarly for The Ocean (what are some options that VIA actually has control over for sustaining this train)? Having used the Canadian several times for actual transportation (in economy and sometimes between smaller destinations), I certainly hope it can continue to exist in a way that's accessible.

 

[Bordercollie]

So let's say they split the train at Edmonton, and the train from Edmonton is 24 hours late? If you are in coach where do you plan to stay? The station won't be open for 24 hours.
I mean they could partner with motels but it's kinda hard when you don't know when then customers will arrive or leave so that kinda difficult.

But they are addressing some of the bottlenecks such as double tracking through the Rockies and adding a bi-pass through walker yard to deal with trains backing up entering the yard. Sometimes it takes the train 6 hours to get from the outskirts of Edmonton, to the station.

 

[micheal_can]

So let's say they split the train at Edmonton, and the train from Edmonton is 24 hours late? If you are in coach where do you plan to stay? The station won't be open for 24 hours.
I mean they could partner with motels but it's kinda hard when you don't know when then customers will arrive or leave so that kinda difficult.

But they are addressing some of the bottlenecks such as double tracking through the Rockies and adding a bi-pass through walker yard to deal with trains backing up entering the yard. Sometimes it takes the train 6 hours to get from the outskirts of Edmonton, to the station.

This is where planning your trip is important. Maybe the train going between each is actually a thru train, but not marked as one. Maybe this makes each section a daily. There are lots of options.

 

[Allandale25]

Wonder what this could mean for HFR?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1348819206830219266

 

[Bordercollie]

So if the train from Edmonton is set to depart on Monday at 12pm.
The train from Vancouver is supposed to arrive on Monday at 8am. If this train is late and doesn't arrive until 5 pm and the next train isn't for 3 days, what happens then? Who's going to pay for their hotel for 3 days? Or do you match the departure time of the train to match the one arriving? But then the train might as well be continuous.
This only works of there is twice daily service on this route.

 

[Bordercollie]

Wonder what this could mean for HFR?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1348819206830219266

Ultimately the direction of the government is decided by the prime minister. The mister in the individual areas as only appointed to follow the Prime Minister's direction.

I'm sure most of the legwork has been done.

Shouldn't make an impact.

 

[Urban Sky]

Good point @micheal_can re: the Edmonton to Vancouver segment.

Please don’t get this sad spammer excited when people don’t immediately rebuke his alternative facts: Trains 3 and 4 are not an extra train operating between Vancouver and Edmonton, but the remainder of a partially suspended third frequency which normally operates between Vancouver and Toronto during the summer months only. You may refer to the shaded train in the table I already posted two posts ago:

Concerning your ideas regarding a potential redesign of the Canadian, you need to ask yourself three questions:

1. What passenger groups are you targeting?
2. What are the needs and expectations of these passengers?
3. To which extent can these needs and expectations be accommodated within the available resources and applicable constraints?

Concerning the last point, you have to acknowledge the political and operational reality in which VIA operates and that means you need to satisfy the following:

• Stay within VIA’s current subsidy needs.
• Work with VIA’s existing fleet.
• Ensure that the Skeena connects with other services so that equipment can be swapped out periodically and maintained at one of VIA’s maintenance centers (e.g. Vancouver or Winnipeg).
• Maintain some service between Capreol and Winnipeg and between Sudbury and White River to provide connectivity to remote communities.

Anything which doesn’t satisfy these constraints is just a fantasy discussion for which I have created a more appropriate thread to keep this one clear from discussions which needlessly escalate this thread’s page count even further...

 

[micheal_can]

So if the train from Edmonton is set to depart on Monday at 12pm.
The train from Vancouver is supposed to arrive on Monday at 8am. If this train is late and doesn't arrive until 5 pm and the next train isn't for 3 days, what happens then? Who's going to pay for their hotel for 3 days? Or do you match the departure time of the train to match the one arriving? But then the train might as well be continuous.
This only works of there is twice daily service on this route.

Part of the problem is that Via has not set their network up to work well. Try to plan a trip from coast to coast. No matter how you plan it, you are spending at least 1 night, if not 2 in a hotel. So, already there are issues.
A simple fix could be that the train leaves 24 hours after one arrives.

 

[Bordercollie]

But then there is no set schedule. Unless you mean that the train is scheduled to leave, 24 hours after the other train is scheduled to arrive.

But then how long is it going to take to cross the country? Is it even worth it?

How about making the host railway keep VIA on time 97% of the time or face a financial penalty. The government has the power to do that
Plus it's 15? trains outside of the carrier vs hundreds of freight trains. I'm sure if the dispatcher wanted to, they could let the Canadian run on schedule.

 

[Urban Sky]

Part of the problem is that Via has not set their network up to work well. Try to plan a trip from coast to coast. No matter how you plan it, you are spending at least 1 night, if not 2 in a hotel. So, already there are issues.
A simple fix could be that the train leaves 24 hours after one arrives.

Which of course instantly obviates the need to stay in an Hotel in Micheal’s La-la-Land, because who really needs to sleep in any given 24 hour period.^^

How about making the host railway keep VIA on time 97% of the time or face a financial penalty.

This is a Transport Policy suggestion. Please discuss this in the appropriate thread!

 

[micheal_can]

But then there is no set schedule. Unless you mean that the train is scheduled to leave, 24 hours after the other train is scheduled to arrive.

But then how long is it going to take to cross the country? Is it even worth it?

How about making the host railway keep VIA on time 97% of the time or face a financial penalty. The government has the power to do that
Plus it's 15? trains outside of the carrier vs hundreds of freight trains. I'm sure if the dispatcher wanted to, they could let the Canadian run on schedule.

So, what I mean is that if the eastbound is scheduled to arrive at 8am on Monday, then the eastbound won't leave till Tuesday at 8am. However, if a daily of each leg was run, then they could all just leave at a specific time and then it can be your resposibility to figure out what to do for the next one.

Mind you, I doubt any of this will happen.

 

[micheal_can]

Wonder what this could mean for HFR?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1348819206830219266

Generally speaking, a Cabinet Minister merely executes the Budget, Thrown Speech and the Platform set out by the Party Leader, whom is the Prime Minister. So, if HFR gets cancelled, it was on direction of the PM.