VIA Rail

[lenaitch]

That has me thinking... If the Strait of Belle Isle rail tunnel ever gets built, rail from St Johns could connect to the Tshiuetin Rail, along the north shore, across the Saguenay River and with the North American network in Quebec City. This won't be cheap. But having a rail link to the eastern most part of Canada will help diversify the economy of Newfoundland & Labrador, allow for container shipments back and forth, and a passenger rail service. Given that the line would travel over some mountainous terrain, such a service would be very popular with tourists and comparable to the Canadian.

Now that would be some project given the geography of the north shore (not even considering the logistics of a strait tunnel). Heck, they're having a hard enough time closing the road loop. I'm sure how Tshiuetin Rail would fit into it - it's way north. Anything along the north shore would have to be built all the way to La Malbaie east of Quebec City or up towards Lac St. Jean.

A agree - let's get the Churchill line operating again and open up that port before we take on an eastern 'national dream'.

 

[nfitz]

That has me thinking... If the Strait of Belle Isle rail tunnel ever gets built, rail from St Johns could connect to the Tshiuetin Rail, along the north shore, across the Saguenay River and with the North American network in Quebec City. This won't be cheap. But having a rail link to the eastern most part of Canada will help diversify the economy of Newfoundland & Labrador, allow for container shipments back and forth, and a passenger rail service. Given that the line would travel over some mountainous terrain, such a service would be very popular with tourists and comparable to the Canadian.

Rail?

It's 2018, and they haven't been able to afford a road yet through Quebec to the Belle Isle ferry! And you propose 2,000 km of new track over difficult terrain?

Now that's an optimist! Normally I say not this century. This time I say not this millennium!

A brand new alignment from Toronto all the way to Florida would be both shorter, cheaper, and more likely!

 

[Garuda]

Such a rail line won’t be considered realistic by any means unless the tunnel gets built and even then that’s an optimist goal.

That said, I’ve been to Labrador and Newfoundland before and there’s a feeling of not really being connected to Canada or part of the national infrastructure so to speak.

I like to fantasize about these routes (like many of you do) but don’t want to be burden with the costs.

 

[nfitz]

Such a rail line won’t be considered realistic by any means unless the tunnel gets built and even then that’s an optimist goal.

They'd never build a rail tunnel in the first place. There's no rails within a thousand miles of it.

 

[Garuda]

They'd never build a rail tunnel in the first place. There's no rails within a thousand miles of it.

Uhh... you are aware that many rail lines operate independently of a national network. Vancouver Island and the North Shore have several lines.

In the studies for a tunnel (https://www.globalrailnews.com/2018...active-option-for-labrador-newfoundland-link/) a undersea rail tunnel was found to be the most attractive solution. This would operate similar to auto train for Channel Tunnel - an electric locomotive shuttle auto trains back and forth. IF an Railway was built to St John’s, then container cars could also be making the journey.

So in planning, it’s better to plan for a tunnel now with a high enough height to support double stack containers and overhead wires (or a third rail).

 

[nfitz]

Uhh... you are aware that many rail lines operate independently of a national network. Vancouver Island and the North Shore have several lines.

Do you think I'm a fording idiot or something?

Have you taken that ferry? It's not about to be replaced by a tunnel anytime soon. As you can see on your link, there isn't even a direct road on one side.

If you also noticed, it's neither in Toronto - nor going to be serviced by VIA Rail.

Perhaps there's a fantasy thread somewhere for this fan-fiction?

 

[steveintoronto]

Uhh... you are aware that many rail lines operate independently of a national network. Vancouver Island and the North Shore have several lines.

In the studies for a tunnel (https://www.globalrailnews.com/2018...active-option-for-labrador-newfoundland-link/) a undersea rail tunnel was found to be the most attractive solution. This would operate similar to auto train for Channel Tunnel - an electric locomotive shuttle auto trains back and forth. IF an Railway was built to St John’s, then container cars could also be making the journey.

So in planning, it’s better to plan for a tunnel now with a high enough height to support double stack containers and overhead wires (or a third rail).

Unless this is to be part of a trans-national VIA network, which is pretty obtuse, it's not germane to the discussion.

 

[crs1026]

In the studies for a tunnel (https://www.globalrailnews.com/2018...active-option-for-labrador-newfoundland-link/) a undersea rail tunnel was found to be the most attractive solution. This would operate similar to auto train for Channel Tunnel - an electric locomotive shuttle auto trains back and forth. IF an Railway was built to St John’s, then container cars could also be making the journey.
.

Oceanex and others run healthy container traffic to NL by boat, but the problem is the last mile. You have to dray them the rest of the way. No way that a new railway could reach enough places to reduce reliance on the road network. The TCH is available, and it’s not full.
NL has enough trouble maintaining its roads (other than the TCH). There are enough potholes in NL to fill the Albert Hall, and Wembley Stadium too. No way they could afford to maintain both the TCH and a railway line.

- Paul

 

[dowlingm]

New Brunswick lost most of its rail the Irvings shut it down in the 1980s, who of course own the trucking biz, and so wanted to remove a competitor for freight. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Brunswick_Railway

Irvings very much in the rail business now: https://www.jdirving.com/jd-irving-products-services-transportation-NBM-railways.aspx

 

[dowlingm]

Trump's 2019 Budget Slashes Amtrak Rail Subsidies | Fortune

Trump's budget request is an irrelevance - what matters is what Congress appropriates. Recall a similar move in 2017 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...df2bc4-3fdf-11e7-adba-394ee67a7582_story.html) and that the same February 2018 budget proposal as in the Fortune piece wanted to defund public broadcasting and contained many other gobbets of crazed anti-government red meat which will never pass (and especially not given the direction of the political tides as expressed by special elections and the mid terms approaching).

 

[Admiral Beez]

Irvings very much in the rail business now: https://www.jdirving.com/jd-irving-products-services-transportation-NBM-railways.aspx

True. I was referring to the lines servicing the capital, and of course to passenger service which depended on the Irvings keeping the tracks in place to the capital region.

Here's the Fredericton station in the 1970s before passenger service was halted and then the tracks torn up.

https://mynewbrunswick.ca/york-street-train-station-fredericton/

 

[Urban Sky]

Here's the Fredericton station in the 1970s before passenger service was halted and then the tracks torn up.

https://mynewbrunswick.ca/york-street-train-station-fredericton/

Passenger service to Fredericton was already abandonned by Canadian National and Canadian Pacific by 1961 (CN, to Newcastle) and 1962 (CP, to Fredericton Junction). Nevertheless, the withdrawal of the Atlantic in November 1981 was partially compensated by extending the Halifax-Moncton-Saint John day train to Fredericton:

Source: Official VIA Rail timetable, effective 1984/10/28

Unfortunately, the revival of passenger operations into Fredericton was shortlived and terminated when the Atlantic was reinstated in June 1985 - a loss to be considered as permanent, given the removal of all tracks in the meanwhile (as far as I am aware)...

 

[micheal_can]

Passenger service to Fredericton was already abandonned by Canadian National and Canadian Pacific by 1961 (CN, to Newcastle) and 1962 (CP, to Fredericton Junction). Nevertheless, the withdrawal of the Atlantic in November 1981 was partially compensated by extending the Halifax-Moncton-Saint John day train to Fredericton:
View attachment 141533
Source: Official VIA Rail timetable, effective 1984/10/28

Unfortunately, the revival of passenger operations into Fredericton was shortlived and terminated when the Atlantic was reinstated in June 1985 - a loss to be considered as permanent, given the removal of all tracks in the meanwhile (as far as I am aware)...

The tracks are gone, but the ROW is a linear trail. So, in theory, what is happening on the Havelock Sub can happen here, and many other places in this country.

 

[Fritter]

The tracks are gone, but the ROW is a linear trail. So, in theory, what is happening on the Havelock Sub can happen here, and many other places in this country.

I cannot speak to the Fredericton ROW specifically, but I have found in Ontario the about 95% of any abandoned railway ROW is still intact. However that missing 5% that has been turned into housing, roads or otherwise blocked the continuous line, will make relaying the railway extremely difficult.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I cannot speak to the Fredericton ROW specifically, but I have found in Ontario the about 95% of any abandoned railway ROW is still intact. However that missing 5% that has been turned into housing, roads or otherwise blocked the continuous line, will make relaying the railway extremely difficult.

When I lived in Fredericton the railway ROWs were great walking and cycling trails. The old railway bridge over the Saint John River is a centrepiece of downtown.

Some other interesting info on Freddie's old rail network https://blog.traingeek.ca/2011/11/fredericton-roundhouse-development.html