VIA Rail

[dowlingm]

And extended to Thunder Bay?

I would do North Bay first, especially if VIA/Ontario also partnered on a North Bay-Toronto service and had shared equipment/maintenance there (F40s+coaches rather than RDCs). A North Bay-Sault Ste Marie service, either daily or interleaved with White River service, might even be a higher priority than extending to Thunder Bay since that reinforces the North Bay-Sudbury axis before stretching the network further.

 

[mdrejhon]

I still share some other forumers' skepticism but I hope you're right!

Fair concern!! You and I both know how Toronto works with cars.

 

[micheal_can]

I would do North Bay first, especially if VIA/Ontario also partnered on a North Bay-Toronto service and had shared equipment/maintenance there (F40s+coaches rather than RDCs). A North Bay-Sault Ste Marie service, either daily or interleaved with White River service, might even be a higher priority than extending to Thunder Bay since that reinforces the North Bay-Sudbury axis before stretching the network further.

Budd cars would be too small for North Bay - Sudbury. When the Northlander was running, it was 3 coaches or more and full most times.

 

[robmausser]

Budd cars would be too small for North Bay - Sudbury. When the Northlander was running, it was 3 coaches or more and full most times.

You can link together budd cars/other DMU's. And it provides advantages over a consist/loco setup. Cheaper to operate for one. I believe they can also run a bit faster over lower grade track (correct me on that one if I am wrong)

Heres a pic of 3 Budds together.

 

[lenaitch]

I would do North Bay first, especially if VIA/Ontario also partnered on a North Bay-Toronto service and had shared equipment/maintenance there (F40s+coaches rather than RDCs). A North Bay-Sault Ste Marie service, either daily or interleaved with White River service, might even be a higher priority than extending to Thunder Bay since that reinforces the North Bay-Sudbury axis before stretching the network further.

There is very little 'social connection' between Thunder Bay and the other communities, primarily because of the distance. If TBay has any connection it is with Winnipeg. I would imagine most of the passenger load would be tourists experiencing the scenery of the CP north shore route.

 

[micheal_can]

You can link together budd cars/other DMU's. And it provides advantages over a consist/loco setup. Cheaper to operate for one. I believe they can also run a bit faster over lower grade track (correct me on that one if I am wrong)

Heres a pic of 3 Budds together.

That is three separate engines to maintain and repair vs one or 2 on the Northlander Plus they also have separate baggage and snack bar coaches.

There is very little 'social connection' between Thunder Bay and the other communities, primarily because of the distance. If TBay has any connection it is with Winnipeg. I would imagine most of the passenger load would be tourists experiencing the scenery of the CP north shore route.

I am more thinking of the tourist traffic between Sudbury and Thunder Bay.

 

[smallspy]

That is three separate engines to maintain and repair vs one or 2 on the Northlander Plus they also have separate baggage and snack bar coaches.

Actually, it's 6: each RDC has 2 motors*. And that second units of the three in the photo has a large baggage compartment.

Each motor is quite a bit smaller however and thus uses quite a bit less fuel, and allows for even more fuel-savings abilities, such as the ability to shut down one engine per unit for cruising, and using only one engine for switching/low speed operations. And let's not forget about the limp-home capability should one or more units fail enroute.

For the record, CN found that the cut-off point at which the costs of the RDCs caught up with loco-hauled equipment was about 3 units in corridor service, and 4 on longer-distance (read: not high-speed) services. They would run trains of more RDCs if they had to, but that was more by virtue of a lack of conventional equipment than anything else.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

*As built, each RDC had 2 GM 6I-110 engines with the exception of the RDC-9s, which only had 1. The 4 rebuilt RDC-1s and RDC-2s that VIA runs in Northern Ontario, and the one demo RDC-2 that IRSI had rebuilt, have been equipped with a separate, additional engine for HEP/onboard power, for a total of 3. The 2 RDC-4s have had one propulsion motor removed but still received the HEP engines, so they still have 2 each.

 

[lenaitch]

I would hope any thought of self-propelled fleet expansion would be based on modern EMUs as opposed to Budd RDCs. The last one was built in 1962.

 

[cplchanb]

I would hope any thought of self-propelled fleet expansion would be based on modern EMUs as opposed to Budd RDCs. The last one was built in 1962.

well...at the very least dmus.... rdcs belong to museums and rail maintenance fleets a la CN.

 

[robmausser]

I would hope any thought of self-propelled fleet expansion would be based on modern EMUs as opposed to Budd RDCs. The last one was built in 1962.

The issue is that very few FRA (Canada Transport) compliant DMU's exist. The UPX ones are one of the only options and they are mechanically unreliable I have been told.

However, Amtrak is looking to use a fleet of DMU's to modernize their services, so maybe VIA can tack an order onto whatever Amtrak does to get some new DMU's at a reasonable price.

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,4536598

Fleet renewal: His remarks on fleet renewal focused on the Amfleet
Ones that are 45 years old and operating under FRA waiver, and the
P42 locomotives. They will be replaced by DMUs

Operational Concept – Amtrak’s market opportunity is in corridors of
100 to 400 miles (he wavered a couple of times on that and said 300
miles) and would be operated by DMUs. DMUs are lighter weight, more
environmentally friendly.

 

[micheal_can]

The issue is that very few FRA (Canada Transport) compliant DMU's exist. The UPX ones are one of the only options and they are mechanically unreliable I have been told.

However, Amtrak is looking to use a fleet of DMU's to modernize their services, so maybe VIA can tack an order onto whatever Amtrak does to get some new DMU's at a reasonable price.

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,4536598

If only there was a company in Canada that made trains that we might be able to have them design and build DMUs compatible to TC standards.....

 

[robmausser]

If only there was a company in Canada that made trains that we might be able to have them design and build DMUs compatible to TC standards.....

Sure if we want them 4 years late

 

[M636RF]

The issue is that very few FRA (Canada Transport) compliant DMU's exist. The UPX ones are one of the only options and they are mechanically unreliable I have been told.

However, Amtrak is looking to use a fleet of DMU's to modernize their services, so maybe VIA can tack an order onto whatever Amtrak does to get some new DMU's at a reasonable price.

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,4536598

In my opinion, these types of trains might be good for some of VIA's less frequent services. DMUs would probably reduce the operating costs of the Northern Quebec routes. They might also be useful for providing more frequent services to places like Sarnia that are outside of the existing corridor (by the way what ever happened with the RDC tests on that route?).

As far as Amtrak goes, we'll see what happens. Anderson (the new CEO) is making a lot of enemies, so I'm not sure if the DMU proposal will go down as planned. They certainly could use them on some of their routes, but the concept of DMUs replacing many of the locomotive hauled trains doesn't make as much sense to me.

 

[lenaitch]

well...at the very least dmus.... rdcs belong to museums and rail maintenance fleets a la CN.

You are correct - I used the wrong acronym.

 

[kEiThZ]

One of the things I would like to see in a situation where Ontario and VIA actually cooperated

This.

I have always been curious why we don't see more cooperation between VIA and the provinces, like you do between Amtrak and the States.