VIA Rail

[cplchanb]

Any news on the new trains? Are they timing this with whenever they get hfr? For that recently announced new routes i wonder if it woukd be more economical running a short 2-4 car dmu instead of the conventional train.

 

[kEiThZ]

There is a similar idea of making Drummundville a Hub for VIA.

I think there's more than a wee bit of a contextual difference between Drummondville and Kingston.

 

[steveintoronto]

Not quite about VIA, but Amtrak ran an inspection train into Montreal recently from St Albans, VT (current Vermonter terminus)

I didn't realize until Googling on this that the Adirondack was funded by New York State. I've ridden the Adirondack years back, it was incredible scenery, albeit slow running. Montreal was wonderful too, it was a romantic time in my life.

Although Trump claims to "like trains"...hopefully Amtrak's funding isn't about to be slashed, although it would be Senate purview to do so. Be good to see the Vermonter return to Montreal. It's been 'in the cards' for a couple of years, and I see that it also relies on state funding:

Editorial: A new train to Vermont?
Montreal Gazette Editorial Board
More from Montreal Gazette Editorial Board
Published on: July 20, 2015 | Last Updated: July 20, 2015 3:45 PM EDT

There was some interesting news this week out of Vermont, where a former state transportation secretary came out of retirement to champion a revived passenger train service between St. Albans and downtown Montreal.

Brian Searles wouldn’t give a target date, but said he would be speaking to U.S. and Canadian governments soon about the plans.

This isn’t a new idea. The Amtrak train known as the Montrealer ferried people down to Washington, D.C. for decades before the Canadian leg of the route was eliminated in 1994 due to budget deficits.

The route, through Vermont, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York and on to Washington, was popular. It is likely that extending it to Montreal would have at least some economic advantages for Quebec. Providing another method of travel between points in the northeastern U.S. and this province could boost tourism year-round. And conveniently, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security and the Canadian Ministry of Public Safety recently concluded an agreement that would allow customs pre-clearance for travellers boarding at Montreal’s Central Station, ensuring fewer delays at the border.

Still, there could be a catch. States along the train’s current route subsidize the service, and Searles said he hopes Massachusetts and Connecticut will increase their subsidies if the trip is extended to Montreal. Would subsidies be expected from Quebec as well? Will investments in infrastructure be necessary?

The notion of a restored Montrealer line is appealing, but in a time of austerity, Quebec must ensure that the benefits outweigh the potential costs.

http://montrealgazette.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-a-new-train-to-vermont

 

[SaugeenJunction]

Any news on the new trains? Are they timing this with whenever they get hfr? For that recently announced new routes i wonder if it woukd be more economical running a short 2-4 car dmu instead of the conventional train.

I posted this recently. There isn't officially cash to fund a new fleet (between $1 billion and $1.5 billion) but some procurement activity seems to be happening.

New tender up on MERX regarding VIA's fleet. Can't access it without a password however.

www.merx.com/viarail

 

[nfitz]

I think there's more than a wee bit of a contextual difference between Drummondville and Kingston.

In what way? Similar size. Both between major cities, though smaller.

 

[dowlingm]

I didn't realize until Googling on this that the Adirondack was funded by New York State. I've ridden the Adirondack years back, it was incredible scenery, albeit slow running. Montreal was wonderful too, it was a romantic time in my life.

Although Trump claims to "like trains"...hopefully Amtrak's funding isn't about to be slashed, although it would be Senate purview to do so. Be good to see the Vermonter return to Montreal. It's been 'in the cards' for a couple of years, and I see that it also relies on state funding:

http://montrealgazette.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-a-new-train-to-vermont

If it goes ahead, it will be a direct run from the border, as Cascades does (the Adirondack stop is to be eliminated). Canada has held this up as the enabling legislation took a while to get through Parliament.

I believe the other issue is the upgrade of CN Rouses Point Sub - CN have no interest in doing so and neither have AMT. I can't remember what the specific issue is - that the Cantic-Cannon section is unsignalled (for a new service) or some other consideration. Doesn't look like Quebec or Canada is rushing to pay either.

 

[steveintoronto]

If it goes ahead, it will be a direct run from the border, as Cascades does (the Adirondack stop is to be eliminated). Canada has held this up as the enabling legislation took a while to get through Parliament.

I believe the other issue is the upgrade of CN Rouses Point Sub - CN have no interest in doing so and neither have AMT. I can't remember what the specific issue is - that the Cantic-Cannon section is unsignalled (for a new service) or some other consideration. Doesn't look like Quebec or Canada is rushing to pay either.

Good article on Amtrak including the Vermonter here: (Story ran in USA Today, but originates from Rochester's Democrat and Chronicle)
https://www.usatoday.com/story/trav...-distance-train-service-endangered/100395912/

 

[cplchanb]

Good article on Amtrak including the Vermonter here: (Story ran in USA Today, but originates from Rochester's Democrat and Chronicle)
https://www.usatoday.com/story/trav...-distance-train-service-endangered/100395912/

more the reason to privatise like JNR did. Look at how theyre doing today

 

[Urban Sky]

more the reason to privatise like JNR did. Look at how theyre doing today

Amtrak recovered only between 27.73% (Sunset Limited) and 63.54% (Palmetto) of its costs on its long-distance passenger routes in 2014 (most recent figures I found). What makes you believe that a private company would be able to increase those routes' revenues relative to their costs by between 57% and 260%?

 

[dowlingm]

Amtrak recovered only between 27.73% (Sunset Limited) and 63.54% of its costs in 2014 (most recent figures I found) on its long-distance passenger routes. What makes you believe that a private company would be able to increase its revenue relative to its costs by between 57% and 260%?

Not to mention that Amtrak has legislated rights to run on private railroads (on routes which existed when Amtrak was created) which aren't inherently transferable to a private successor.

 

[IRT_BMT_IND]

more the reason to privatise like JNR did.

The Japanese government socialized the JNR's enormous debts when they privatized the system (there is a state owned company that exists solely to service legacy JNR debt), downloaded many unprofitable local lines to municipal/prefectural governments, and severly cut service on a lot of other ones. The Hokkaido, Shikoku, and Kyushu JRs have never been profitable. The other ones are only profitable thanks to the Shinkansen and the enormous ridership on the suburban lines.

And privatizing JNR is still one of the most controversial things any postwar Japanese government has ever done. It's on the scale of the Harris Tories selling the 407.

 

[kEiThZ]

In what way? Similar size. Both between major cities, though smaller.

Kingston is twice the population and within a 3 hr driving distance has the first, second and fifth largest CMAs. Drummondville is sandwiched between Montreal and Quebec City and is really on the wrong side of the river, with all the bridges acting as rate limiters. It's within 3 hrs of Ottawa I guess. But barely.

If Kingston ever got HSR, I would rush to invest in property. They place would be commutable to three massive cities with half the cost in housing.

 

[kEiThZ]

more the reason to privatise like JNR did. Look at how theyre doing today

If we're going the Japanese route, let's first spend billions on High Speed Rail and then privatize it. How many of those lines do you think would have been built if JNR was a private entity at the time?

And of course, that's before we look at what it took to privatize JNR, including the government taking on most of its liabilities (several hundred billion dollars) and then subsidizing the portions that were unprofitable. Any serious view of that policy in its entirety will see it for the fiasco that it was. Government paying the company's debts while profits go to shareholders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_National_Railway_Settlement_Corporation

The privatization debate is an interesting one. For example, some Brits seem to ruing their decision to privatize the railways, with the Opposition party even pledging nationlisation:

https://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2017/06/26-corbyn-confirms-labour-rail-nationalisation.html

You look also look at what state owned rail companies accomplished in France and Spain have accomplished. Compare that to the UK. Seems to me in Europe the only rail privatization that has gone decently is the German Deutsche Bahn and even that's not 100% private.

 

[nfitz]

Kingston is twice the population and within a 3 hr driving distance has the first, second and fifth largest CMAs. Drummondville is sandwiched between Montreal and Quebec City and is really on the wrong side of the river, with all the bridges acting as rate limiters. It's within 3 hrs of Ottawa I guess. But barely.

Twice the population? Was about 60,000 until they annexed half the county, similar to Drummondville, which hasn't annexed half the county.

Official 2016 census area population is 96,118 for Drummondville up from 91,222 in 2011.

Kingston is 161,175 in 2016, up from 159,561 in 2011.

Certainly not twice as big. And not that dissimilar. And Drummondville is growing faster. Sandwiched?

Both aren't on the proposed corridors. Neither is likely to be on the HSR corridor, if they ever build one after near 50 years of discussion.

Nothing is every going to be a perfect comparison - but this isn't bad.

 

[Urban Sky]

You look also look at what state owned rail companies accomplished in [...] Spain have accomplished.

Sure, one could indeed call the quintupling of one's HSR network without letting rail ridership rise faster than population growth an "accomplishment" which stands out (and not only if compared to more private rail networks):

Note: Table originally posted in Post #648 in this Thread.

Compare that to the UK

...the country where rail ridership has grown faster in the last decade than in any other major European rail nation (and that with minimal HSR):

Note: Table originally posted in Post #637 in this Thread.

Seems to me in Europe the only rail privatization that has gone decently is the German Deutsche Bahn and even that's not 100% private.

Indeed, even Deutsche Bahn is not 100% privately-owned. To be more precise, the exact percentage is zero:

Deutsche Bahn AG (abbreviated as DB, DB AG or DBAG) is a German railway company. Headquartered in Berlin, it is a private joint-stock company (AG), with the Federal Republic of Germany being its single shareholder.