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Union Station: Northwest PATH Expansion

nfitz said:
Not quit sure what you mean. Lots of maps posted in the PATH. But that's not particularly new ... at least a decade or so I'd think.
Click to expand...

No need to be snarky. What I mean is, are there any plans to overhaul the signage in the system? The PATH map in the above photo is in a highly visible location. In the past, and this may no longer be the case, a lot of the PATH maps were not necessarily in the most logical locations. Sometimes you can easily find the local building map (and I get why building owners make them prominent) but the overall network map wasn't in the same location (I remember FCP being like this when I was there for the recladding, for instance). Oftentimes all you could find were the signage that points you to the "next building", but without the overall network map, that can be tough to navigate.

Are there any efforts ongoing to change that? Has anything changed?
 
wopchop said:
No need to be snarky.
Click to expand...
What? There was nothing snarky at all in my response. I simply pointed out that there were lots of maps, and had been for some time. My assumption was I'd completely missed your point, as there's always been maps as far as I can recall - though perhaps less than now.

Is this because I typod "quite"?

I'm really confused and taken aback here. I can certainly be snarky ... but even rereading my post, I'm not seeing anything, other than the typo ... and I can't really see how that would change anything.
 
nfitz said:
What? There was nothing snarky at all in my response. I simply pointed out that there were lots of maps, and had been for some time. My assumption was I'd completely missed your point, as there's always been maps as far as I can recall - though perhaps less than now.

Is this because I typod "quite"?

I'm really confused and taken aback here. I can certainly be snarky ... but even rereading my post, I'm not seeing anything, other than the typo ... and I can't really see how that would change anything.
Click to expand...
The last sentence felt snarky to me. If that wasn't your intention then I apologize for misinterpretation. Written communication can be difficult sometimes, I suppose.
 
wopchop said:
The last sentence felt snarky to me. If that wasn't your intention then I apologize for misinterpretation. Written communication can be difficult sometimes, I suppose.
Click to expand...
It can be ... still not really seeing it. Though if you were 15 (for example - I don't think you are), you might read a comment about "a decade" very differently than if you were 50, when a decade means "very recently". :)

Personally despite generally knowing my way around the Path, I still find it confusing, particularly if I try and use it to surface somewhere new ... generally it's faster to just get out asap, and walk on the surface. But then you never figure out all the tricks, which the level of detail in the maps comes no where near capturing.

In particular I find the lack of indication in surface entrances, and exits, difficult.

Personally, I find the more detailed mapping that you see in Montreal easier and more intuitive. Though there's very little mapping when you in the system itself:

montreal-underground-city-map1[1].jpg

Although this is from 2008, the 2013 edition is shockingly unchanged. Perhaps Montreal is easier, because they seldom ever build anything new. :)
 

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wopchop said:
No need to be snarky. What I mean is, are there any plans to overhaul the signage in the system? The PATH map in the above photo is in a highly visible location. In the past, and this may no longer be the case, a lot of the PATH maps were not necessarily in the most logical locations. Sometimes you can easily find the local building map (and I get why building owners make them prominent) but the overall network map wasn't in the same location (I remember FCP being like this when I was there for the recladding, for instance). Oftentimes all you could find were the signage that points you to the "next building", but without the overall network map, that can be tough to navigate.

Are there any efforts ongoing to change that? Has anything changed?
Click to expand...

I remember reading something about how the biggest reason wayfinding was so difficult (and maps so hard to find) was that competing landlords didn't want the users knowing that much about other buildings in the network - e.g., if you knew the next building over had a bigger or better food court, you'd leave your building, but if you didn't know, you were stuck with Timmys and Burger King and therefore spending your money on their tenants.
 
Mr_Praline said:
I remember reading something about how the biggest reason wayfinding was so difficult (and maps so hard to find) was that competing landlords didn't want the users knowing that much about other buildings in the network - e.g., if you knew the next building over had a bigger or better food court, you'd leave your building, but if you didn't know, you were stuck with Timmys and Burger King and therefore spending your money on their tenants.
Click to expand...

I have heard that for well over a decade. I think at some point a very long time ago there may have been a kernel of truth to it, but as of now it's simply not applicable. The overwhelming majority of downtown office workers who patronize the stores in the PATH know the layout of their building and the neighbouring ones extremely well. It's not THAT complicated. They don't need maps to navigate to adjacent towers to find another food court. The maps are for the occasional lost tourist or someone traveling far away from their home building, but even then, they are 10 times more likely to just ask someone where to go than waste time on a complicated map.
 
wopchop said:
Love that they posted a PATH map. It's been a while since I've used the PATH regularly, but is this something that is happening elsewhere in the network?
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Ironically the map posted in the new north-west extension is already dated. It even lists the walkway it is in as "future walkway."
 
junctionist said:
The public realm is nicely finished with the natural stone finishes. I like that they're taking risks to create something less sedate than we're used to in this city, but the sawtooth pattern of wall cladding seems somewhat gimmicky.
Click to expand...

I can only imagine advertisements will be coming to those walls sometime in the future.

wopchop said:
No need to be snarky. What I mean is, are there any plans to overhaul the signage in the system? The PATH map in the above photo is in a highly visible location. In the past, and this may no longer be the case, a lot of the PATH maps were not necessarily in the most logical locations. Sometimes you can easily find the local building map (and I get why building owners make them prominent) but the overall network map wasn't in the same location (I remember FCP being like this when I was there for the recladding, for instance). Oftentimes all you could find were the signage that points you to the "next building", but without the overall network map, that can be tough to navigate.

Are there any efforts ongoing to change that? Has anything changed?
Click to expand...

The issue is that the PATH is property of the local buildings and they are under no obligation to do those kind of signage. The worse is the Scotia Plaza where they provide maps for the concourse level and several levels of the Scotia building but absolutely nothing about the PATH. I would also like to have better wayfinding (do our PATH maps seriously not have a "You Are Here" symbol anywhere?), indication of what street I am under, and a better idea of which compass direction I am walking towards.

I see it as an area of improvement where the City can intervene to make the PATH a better experience.
 
 
P23 said:
It sort of looks like the walls ahead and to the right can be knocked out later for expansion. Is that the case? They look really temporary.
Click to expand...
That's not where the NW PATH expansion tunnel they've been building for months already enters? I haven't been in yet.
 
This only the first phase - the tunnel will be extended northward post-summer I think (not sure where the funding situation is).

AoD
 
P23 said:
It sort of looks like the walls ahead and to the right can be knocked out later for expansion. Is that the case? They look really temporary.
Click to expand...

Yes. Eventually you will be able to walk north upto Wellington where it will connect to both HSBC on west side and TD Food Court on the east side.
I'm not sure of the timeline for the extension is however.
 
yyzhyd said:
Yes. Eventually you will be able to walk north upto Wellington where it will connect to both HSBC on west side and TD Food Court on the east side.
I'm not sure of the timeline for the extension is however.
Click to expand...

There is also a punchout at that junction for a Royal York connection - is that still on the books?
 
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