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Union Station LRT Loop Reconfiguration (TTC, Proposed)

Can someone explain the track diagram above to me? What are the two tracks in the centre for? They don't appear to go anywhere. Are they storage, or do they lead elsewhere?

The inner tracks indicate the old track configuration. For a more detailed diagram of what is planned take a look at W. K. Lis' image in comment #16 of this thread.
 
Even if there is no be no Queens Quay East streetcar, the loop needs to be enlarged. The unloading and loading should be moved away from the actual loop itself.

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I hate this plan and have done since I first saw the drawings. Hate it hate it hate it. It's going to be a poison pill for Queens Quay East if TTC insist on the loop expansion as a prerequisite (rather than introducing alternative service from downtown to the Ex/Ferry Docks/Island Airport to allow 509/510 to reduce enough to make QQE work).

I'd rip out the existing streetcar tunnel and replace it with an APM like Heathrow T5 (Bombardier Innovia 200 with platform doors; platforms at Union/ACC South/Queens Quay/Ferry Docks with some/most/all trains skipping ACC South/Ferry Dock depending on time of day), and through surface running on Queens Quay west to east.

Failing that I'd order a subfleet of double side double end streetcars, put a crossover in north of Queens Quay and then rip the whole thing out at Union and put 3-4 terminal tracks in there. I'd also institute a frequent bus service from Eireann Quay to York/Richmond/Simcoe along the ROW to reduce taxi demand but also serve the condos and the new commercial buildings south of the rail lands - would also get transit a bit closer to CN Tower/Skydome without getting too disrupted by events at the latter. At present the QQLRT skirts the demand (almost 50% of its catchment is water)

Extending the tunnel up Bay is a non-runner - has to pass the subway and all the sewers etc. already relocated for the 2nd Platform Project, plus the PATH.

Interesting, and sounds good. I recall thinking that double-ended vehicles on the surface could be more optimal than whatever they have (had?) planned for this loop. And I think this idea could work particularly well if the Gardiner corridor were combined with it somehow.
 
As for the APM like Heathrow T5, that was proposed by a member of the BIA group on our committee and was shot down as being too short and costly.

The other idea put forth was moving the Bay line to the surface and using the tunnel as a walkway. TTC shot this down.

If the cars were duel end you would have 3 tracks on the surface north of Lake Shore for platforms with one northbound lane open for GO. The rest of Bay be closed to traffic between Queen and the Lake Shore.

By putting tracks on the surface and taking the line north to Bloor St, it become a relief line for Yonge, but the cars would have to be duel end.

Don't see the Bremner line coming into play and would have a major impact on operation for all lines if it every did. TTC saw a Bathurst car using the Bremner line as well.

The plan call for the east side to be use for 509/510 while the west side would be use for the east end. The current tracks would be use as bypass for platforms. The best you can get in per the platform would be only 2 of the new cars.

The tunnel exist today for the Bremner line under the ACC with it surfacing at the west side of the west loop.

TTC saw this loop being able to handle 12,000 riders at peak.
 
That's an interesting idea, dowlingm. Rather than having all QQ vehicles (QQW, QQE, Spadina) go through the loop to Union, I wonder if it would be better to build a new underground streetcar station at Bay & QQ, and have a moving sidewalk tunnel that leads directly to the Union subway station platform. A quick Google Earth survey says that it's about 550m, which isn't much longer than Pier G (I think that's the long hammerhead one) at Pearson T1. This would save a lot of time for passengers interested in going from say Bathurst to Parliament along QQ, since they wouldn't have to detour to Union.

Part of the existing streetcar tunnel could even be used for this. It may also be a convenient way to connect the subway to the farthest GO platforms, as well as the GO bus station.
 
That's an interesting idea, dowlingm. Rather than having all QQ vehicles (QQW, QQE, Spadina) go through the loop to Union, I wonder if it would be better to build a new underground streetcar station at Bay & QQ, and have a moving sidewalk tunnel that leads directly to the Union subway station platform. A quick Google Earth survey says that it's about 550m, which isn't much longer than Pier G (I think that's the long hammerhead one) at Pearson T1. This would save a lot of time for passengers interested in going from say Bathurst to Parliament along QQ, since they wouldn't have to detour to Union.

Part of the existing streetcar tunnel could even be used for this. It may also be a convenient way to connect the subway to the farthest GO platforms, as well as the GO bus station.
That Idea was also kill due to cost as well having a ventilation system in there as well.

TTC has looked at running service bypassing the loop from the east to service the Ex. It was also recommend by me and the committee/team that it was plan for.

I would build a new station between Bay & Yonge as part of the new transit hub. A new tunnel would be require for Yonge St. Cars from the west would go north on Yonge and south on Bay. The east would run opposite direction. Without setting down and doing some design work, you may have space to put in a 3 track platform.

I still say that the surface plan will work as while being a faction of the cost to build this loop. There are many unknowns what will be find and have to deal with at a higher cost than plan for once you start construction. You can have the surface plan running sooner than later.

If you want this walkway, you will need lighting, heating and AC on top of then ventilation system. You need to deal with water leaks now it a public place at a good price.

There is also a safety concern here as well.
 
The tunnel exist today for the Bremner line under the ACC with it surfacing at the west side of the west loop.

I'm not crazy!

I worked on the ACC back in 98, and was back at MLS around 2008 when they were redoing Union Plaza, and I swore that I remembered seeing a tunnel running under the Galleria but everyone said I was just imagining it or confusing it with a service tunnel or something like that. And it really bothered me, because I remember having trouble setting up cranes in that plaza because of the suspended slab, but still no one ever wanted to believe me that there was a streetcar tunnel down there.

What kind of shape is that tunnel in? Is there any way (even for a service worker, not for the public) to get into it, or is it sealed up at both ends? Assuming the loop were to be expanded, how much more expensive would it be to get that line commissioned?
 
Does anyone know the *current* position with respect to the Queens Quay-Bay curve which will become a junction for East Bayfront? In 2013 Steve Munro wrote that there were problems creating a T / Delta junction which would preclude a construction order where shutdown east of Spadina was minimised to the installation of a T / Delta junction since once that was installed 509/510/310 could terminate at the East Bayfront loop at Parliament pending completion of Union Loop works. In 2014 drum118 wrote here that a through track would happen.

Unless TTC and Waterfront will toss the loop expansion, limiting it to expanded platforms/81 Bay connection but no additional track plus ditching Bremner, then another long Loop shutdown is in prospect and I think people should be rightfully annoyed at this given how long 509/510 were down to do the QQ West rehab.

Re: the Heathrow T5A-B APM - 670m. Not too far from the length of the QQ tunnel... and not the PRT that was pictured in this East Bayfront report. But probably not happening. Never mind :)
 
Does anyone know the *current* position with respect to the Queens Quay-Bay curve which will become a junction for East Bayfront? In 2013 Steve Munro wrote that there were problems creating a T / Delta junction which would preclude a construction order where shutdown east of Spadina was minimised to the installation of a T / Delta junction since once that was installed 509/510/310 could terminate at the East Bayfront loop at Parliament pending completion of Union Loop works. In 2014 drum118 wrote here that a through track would happen.

Unless TTC and Waterfront will toss the loop expansion, limiting it to expanded platforms/81 Bay connection but no additional track plus ditching Bremner, then another long Loop shutdown is in prospect and I think people should be rightfully annoyed at this given how long 509/510 were down to do the QQ West rehab.

Re: the Heathrow T5A-B APM - 670m. Not too far from the length of the QQ tunnel... and not the PRT that was pictured in this East Bayfront report. But probably not happening. Never mind :)
That whole portal and Bay Intersection will have to be completely torn up and rebuilt to put in a true T to allow all lines to use the Bay Tunnel.

Waterfront Toronto would love to toss the loop expansion, but TTC has made it a condition of building the east section. They have talked to Metrolinx about putting it in the new hub, but fallen on deaf ears as Metrolinx is not prepare to give up space for a loop there.
 
A north-south shuttle to the waterfront sounds like a terrible idea for riders.

The Union Station Loop would be a great asset for the Waterfront and Toronto in general. Providing direct access to destinations all across the western and eastern waterfront from Union Station seems like a no-brainer.
 
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That whole portal and Bay Intersection will have to be completely torn up and rebuilt to put in a true T to allow all lines to use the Bay Tunnel.
Then that is what should happen. Having all light rail between Spadina and Parliament loops shut any time there is an issue in the Bay tunnel seems bonkers to me, not to mention the extra running time getting East Bayfront cars into and out of service to Parliament Loop.
 

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