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U.S. Elections 2008

Who will be the next US president?

  • John McCain

    Votes: 8 7.8%
  • Barack Obama

    Votes: 80 77.7%
  • Other

    Votes: 15 14.6%

  • Total voters
    103
So what caused McGovern to lose - seen as too liberal?

Both Obama and Clinton have almost the same positions - so technically they are both Liberal to the same extent. So if that is the cause and it is still applicable today - then both of them would eventually lose.
 
Ralph Nader is the only candidate who has done anything significant to improve people's lives. Neither the former First Lady, nor the Tiger Beat Candidate, nor the old POW have a record that compares to his.

Well, in all fairness they have helped to pass legislation (judge that legislation as you may).
 
When have we seen so many college-aged youth and ethnic minorities becoming this interested in American politics before? If these two, never before seen lobbies unite behind one frontrunner (guess who), it'd be of no shock that the Democrats pull a victory come November.
Yes, but there are a lot more non-college aged, white adults in the USA that may mobilize against a black candidate with a foreign name. How many of those ethnic minorities interested in American politics are citizens that can vote?

No, IMO, what we're going to see here is the mobilization of both sides on historic scales, with the traditional Republican voters saying this must not pass.
 
A cage match where the old POW tries to take down the Tiger Beat Candidate is the most entertaining scenario of all. I'm delighted we seem to be heading in that direction.
 
A cage match where the old POW tries to take down the Tiger Beat Candidate is the most entertaining scenario of all. I'm delighted we seem to be heading in that direction.
I'd put my money on McCain in that fight. Obama will be trying to out-speak McCain, while McCain pulls out a naval-issue gun and shoots Obama dead.
 
I dunno. The Tiger Beat Candidate's in pretty good shape. He could pull the old rope-a-dope trick, like Reagan did with Carter in '80. Catch me if you can, cracker! The old POW can't raise his arms above his shoulders and could tire easily. It could be close ...
 
I'd put my money on McCain in that fight. Obama will be trying to out-speak McCain, while McCain pulls out a naval-issue gun and shoots Obama dead.

I'm with Shocker on this one. Obama's teethy grin could deflect the bullets and anyone verse enough with the basketball as he is, certainly could dodge out of harm's way. If all else fails the strength of his well-articulated convictions would silence any naysayers into submission, hence score 1: Barack, -1: McCain ;).
 
"Well-articulated convictions"?

Yeah, right, the entire Tiger Beat editorial board will be sitting in the audience holding up cue-cards ...

But, yeah, he'll win ... "hands down".
 
I wouldn't put any stock in those polls. They are probably skewed toward McCain because he is already the nominee. Wait until Obama is officially the Democratic nominee, and you'll probably see the numbers change.

McCain would beat Hillary, and Obama would beat McCain.
 
from The Wall Street Journal article:

Party rules created superdelegates in 1982 as a potential check against an unelectable nominee from outside the mainstream. These individuals, who can vote as they choose, include all Democratic members of Congress, governors, Democratic National Committee representatives from each state, and a few VIPs, including former Presidents Clinton and Carter. The 795 superdelegates this year constitute a little less than 20% of the 4,048 total delegates who will meet at the August 25-28 convention in Denver.

Twenty per cent is still a huge, huge variable. And superdelegates don't all base their decisions on the same factors. Some will go with the majority winner of their state, others will go with their gut, some are paying back a favour or hoping for one, but the discussion will turn at some point to, Who has a better chance of beating McCain? If nationwide polls (rather than polling only Democrats in any one state) show that Clinton has a better chance than Obama does against McCain, then the momentum could shift among some superdelegates.

For voters who shift between Democrat and Republican, I would think McCain is progressive enough that he would represent a "change" from Big Bad Bush. But some major unforeseen event could still happen in Afghanistan or Iraq, or in the US, that would shift people's thinking back towards having a more "experienced" president during a time of escalating war -- a bill better fit by McCain and Clinton.

There are still a whole lot of variables at play here and I wouldn't bet a dime on either Clinton or Obama yet, or on how the superdelegates are gonna vote, or on the Democrats automatically winning the election. Not yet.

If I were voting, I'd give the nod to
 
I wouldn't put any stock in those polls. They are probably skewed toward McCain because he is already the nominee. Wait until Obama is officially the Democratic nominee, and you'll probably see the numbers change.

McCain would beat Hillary, and Obama would beat McCain.

You're basing your opinion on primaries and not general elections I would believe. Given the information I've seen, most data suggest Hillary is better for a general election and the few independents that Obama currently attracts aren't as notable as the media have said.
 
Gwynne Dyer's view...

Obama in Osama’s hands
Republicans toast if Bush’s al-Qaeda enemies don’t spark up more homeland terror
By Gwynne Dyer


I knew the U.S. presidential race was over last week when my son preemptively announced that he had lost his bet with me: Hillary Clinton was not going to be the Democratic candidate.

The question of whether Barack Obama can beat John McCain, though, is still open, according to the opinion polls, but it probably won’t stay open long once the two men go head to head.

McCain is a Republican in a year when the U.S. is heading into a recession after eight years of a Republican administration. Even more importantly, he is committed to continuing a war in Iraq that most Americans just want to leave behind.

Curiously, this means that the two men with the greatest potential influence on McCain’s political future are Osama bin Laden and Muqtada al-Sadr.

The one thing that could swing the 2008 election in favour of the Republicans is another large-scale terrorist attack on the U.S. If al Qaeda has any ability to carry out that attack, it will certainly do so, for Osama bin Laden is well aware that his greatest recruiting tool in the Arab world is the American military presence in Iraq.

But it’s unlikely that al Qaeda has any significant presence inside the United States.

Al-Sadr is a more interesting case. He is the leader of the Mahdi Army, the biggest Shia militia in Iraq, and he has just extended his unilateral ceasefire against American troops and rival militias for another six months. His two main objectives in life are to evict the U.S. from Iraq and to gain control of the Iraqi government, and the first is a necessary preliminary to the second.

So long as the U.S. presidential election promises to result in an administration pledged to withdraw from Iraq, he doesn't have to lift a finger. But if by August it looks like McCain has a chance of winning, then al-Sadr has every incentive to end his ceasefire and launch a mini-Tet Offensive against U.S. troops.

The point would not be to win. It would be to remind American voters that Iraq is a quagmire they should leave really soon.

So one way or another, Barack Obama is almost certain to be the president of the United States by January of next year. He has hedged his commitment to withdraw American troops from Iraq in various ways from time to time, but there’s little doubt in most people’s minds that he really intends to do it.

What will the Middle East look like after the Americans are gone?

Not just gone from Iraq either. There are currently U.S. military bases of one sort or another in almost every country along the southwestern (Arab) side of the Gulf, but with Iran emerging as the new great power of the region, many of the host countries will soon be asking the Americans to leave.

They don’t fear invasion by Iran; they fear internal destabilization if Iran incites their own Shia minorities against them. So keep Tehran happy by sending the Americans home.

Iraq, contrary to all the predictions of disaster, will probably be all right after the withdrawal of U.S. troops. It will never again be the secular, female-friendly society of the past, and it will take at least a decade to recover from the economic devastation of the embargo, the invasion and the occupation, but it won’t break up.

Most of the smaller ethnic and religious minorities have fled from Iraq or been killed, and the larger groups – Sunni Arabs, Shia Arabs, Kurds – have mostly retreated into homogeneous districts and neighbourhoods, so there’s not much left to fight about except along the boundary between Arab Iraq and Kurdistan.

It’s even possible that the more or less democratic system imposed by the U.S. occupation will survive the departure of the Americans.

Iran will indeed emerge as the new paramount power of the Gulf, but its actual influence even over predominantly Shia Iraq will be quite limited.

Farther afield, the notion of a dangerously radical “Shia crescent’’ running through Iraq, Syria and Lebanon is sheer nonsense: Shias are a minority in Lebanon and a very small minority in Syria.

It is mainly the U.S. State Department that promotes this fantasy, with the aim of scaring Sunni Arab states into a new, U.S.-dominated alliance against Iran.

The real fallout from the U.S. invasion of Iraq is the greatly heightened prestige of Islamist revolutionaries throughout the Arab world. Whether this will ever result in a successful Islamist revolution in a major Arab country remains to be seen – they have been trying and failing for 30 years now – but the odds have probably shifted somewhat in that direction.

And the big loser of this decade's events is Israel, which must now deal with a strengthened Iran, a Gaza Strip under Islamist control and a U.S. in retreat from the Middle East. It still faces no serious military threat from its neighbours, but its political options are significantly narrower than they were.

It’s not much of a headline: “Small, Nasty War in Iraq Ends; Middle East Largely Unaffected.’’ But, then, history often works like that. The equivalent headline in 1975 would have read “U.S. Defeated in Vietnam; No Wider Consequences.’’

Gwynne Dyer is a London-based independent journalist whose articles are published in 45 countries.
 
So what caused McGovern to lose - seen as too liberal?

Both Obama and Clinton have almost the same positions - so technically they are both Liberal to the same extent. So if that is the cause and it is still applicable today - then both of them would eventually lose.

I looked over this statement, but from what I recollect it wouldn't be due to McGovern being too liberal, in the 1970's it was still popular to call yourself a liberal and even Richard Nixon campaigned on being FOR liberal policies to win votes nationwide while claiming to be conservative as well. The US really didn't turn conservative until the 1980's when a true generational shift occurred.

I'm not sure whether that is really changing this year or if its just an anomaly. BTW, in regards to why McGovern lost it was because the Democratic party was split into several factions: the southern wing of the party (still strong in the 70's) was anti-civil rights and was upset the national Democrats passed the civil rights laws. The rest of the nation was mostly split on the war, some Democrats were not anti-war and they didn't back McGovern, they backed Nixon.

So the Vietnam War and Civil Rights are what caused McGovern's defeat.

While Civil Rights aren't an issue today for African Americans so much, another issue has taken its place: morality and religion in the ballot box. Gay rights and abortion keep many voters away from the Democratic party in 2008 still today, just like equal rights for African Americans kept voters away from Democrats in 1972.

And as anti-war as many Americans are, there are still significant margins of people who aren't as anti-war as Obama, and in a general election its yet to be seen if his anti-war theme is electable.

But Hillary has the same problem, to be fair, in that she's against the Iraq war and for equal rights. But I still feel she'd fare better in battleground states for other reasons. Name recognition, the Clinton name can bring back several states into battleground territory (Hillary can win Arkansas and West Virginia, Obama likely cannot).

My support for Hillary isn't just because I'm a registered Democrat, I truly think she's the better candidate to win regardless of what some polls are saying today. Its too early to choose a candidate just because of polls.

Do I think Obama could be a fantastic leader? Absolutely. I just hope when the general election campaign rumors start flying that Obama can handle it. Hillary has been hated on for years by the Republican establishment, and Obama has yet to withstand the full brunt force of a general campaign attack. John Kerry couldn't handle it and he tried to stay positive and "above the fray" and you see where that got him: a big, fat 1% loss.

In my personal opinion we need a Democrat not afraid to stand up and fight, and if they have to run a negative ad so be it. John Kerry let the Republicans walk all over him in the 2004 election and I don't want Obama to make the same mistake.
 

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