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TTC: Streetcar Network

The problem is that with too many stops it won’t be. It needs to be. Toronto already does great at slow local transit. What we lack is rapid transit to get people across large distances fast.

Build with fewer stops and people will nitpick that the stops are too far apart and there's no local service, or the local service is wasteful and inefficient (e.g. Yonge Street north of Sheppard, Sheppard between Yonge and Don Mills).

That Eglinton East map is 22 stops over 14.5 kilometers. Travel the same distance on line 2 from Woodbine to Keele and you've got the same number of stops. The only difference is that the EELRT is not grade-separated.
 
Oh, I see. But, I personally think stops should be spaced out a bit more then what they are currently during, maybe build "stations" for the surface network, like with the VIVA Rapidway stops
I suspect that you are a young healthy person for whom 400 meters is not a major walk. There are many people who rely on transit where increasing stop distances would mean they could no longer take regular TTC - do not forget that if you live on a side-street you have to walk to the main street before you are even on a transit route. I certainly accept that SOME stops are too close together but before removing/moving stops you need to look at the local demand and understand why a stop was put there in the first place. (There was a Sunday-only stop on College that was only removed recently, it was apparently put there because it was opposite OLD front door of Toronto General and most visiting used to be on Sundays!)
 
I suspect that you are a young healthy person for whom 400 meters is not a major walk. There are many people who rely on transit where increasing stop distances would mean they could no longer take regular TTC - do not forget that if you live on a side-street you have to walk to the main street before you are even on a transit route. I certainly accept that SOME stops are too close together but before removing/moving stops you need to look at the local demand and understand why a stop was put there in the first place. (There was a Sunday-only stop on College that was only removed recently, it was apparently put there because it was opposite OLD front door of Toronto General and most visiting used to be on Sundays!)

I understand the elderly need more frequent stops, the idea is to have regular 'stations" in most locations, then bring back Sunday stops as well as NEW special stations for the seniors homes out there. What do you think about this, or are you gonna complain about it too???
 
Think of it like this- Routes like 52, 32 for the buses and 501 and 504 for streetcar would have special "stations". They would look like typical stops, but have a larger shelter. Every stop would get a shelter unless it is not possible due to sidewalk width. The regular "stations" would be served 7 days a week, 24hrs a day if the route has night service, much like today's stops. If there is a church or seniors home along a part of a route, a special "station" would be built that would serve on Sundays 8 am to 12 noon for the church ones and the seniors home stops would be served from 9 am to 7 pm 7 days a week.
 
I suspect that you are a young healthy person for whom 400 meters is not a major walk. There are many people who rely on transit where increasing stop distances would mean they could no longer take regular TTC - do not forget that if you live on a side-street you have to walk to the main street before you are even on a transit route. I certainly accept that SOME stops are too close together but before removing/moving stops you need to look at the local demand and understand why a stop was put there in the first place. (There was a Sunday-only stop on College that was only removed recently, it was apparently put there because it was opposite OLD front door of Toronto General and most visiting used to be on Sundays!)

One MAJOR problems with suburban roads in general are the cul-de-sac setup of the residential streets outside of the downtown or old city of Toronto, York, and East York streets.

streetcomparison5.jpg


While the "cul-de-sac" was supposed to make things safer for pedestrians, it actually made things worse. Walking distances to schools, shopping, or bus (transit) stops became longer. You may think the stops are fine being 500m apart or even 1 km apart, but we tend to forget we still have the side streets to traverse along to get to and from. (Must not forget about the sidewalks.)

From link.

A Fix for Bad Roads: Don’t Make More

Matt Yglesias linked to this Streetsblog interview with John Norquist (this is a great one, read the whole thing if you can) about efforts on the Federal level to improve road planning. Both pieces are very interesting, Norquist knows what good roads are and Matt Yglesias understands what good policy is. They also both include this graphic, from here.

It’s clear that in the first image, you can’t cheaply build effective bus service for all residents of the culs-de-sac: no one bus stop can serve all culs-de-sac, and if you build many bus stops, the service slows and the bus becomes a poor alternative to driving. What may not be as obvious at first glance is the hidden costs of the roads pictured in the for image for local governments. Those culs-de-sac roads go no where, and therefore dump all drivers and pedestrians onto major arterials. Short trips like the one above can no longer be easily made on foot, and then even more cars are pushed onto the arterials. Those arterials become more congested and require more maintenance, more traffic mitigation infrastructure and the occasional widening project. Other hidden costs are the problems ambulances would have getting out of the culs-de-sac, and the costs of salting and paving these semi-private roads.So that second image is better not just for pedestrians, it’s also better for cars and much better for taxpayers.

Yglesias rightly points out that the place to make changes in the rules that allow for the creation of these “bad” roads is in the state or local level. Well, Virginia has made a huge move here, stating that it will only provide maintenance services for roads in new sub-divisions that meet new guidelines for narrower roads and more connections to the larger road grid. For the state of Virginia, it has become too expensive to continue widening and the maintaining the major arterials and has developed a “connectivity index” framework for judging whether a new development will get maintenance help from the state or not. Virginia will not only refuse to fix pot holes on new roads that don’t fit within their system, they will refuse to plow those roads for snow. The Greater Great Washington post linked to has details on the specifics.

Personally, I’d be happy if no new exurban developments whatsoever were started in Washington State, but I know that’s not realistic. We need to find a similar street-design framework for Washington State that encourages or requires new subdivision developers to build roads that connect commuters and are accessible by bicycle and pedestrian traffic as well as cars. Of course NIMBYs and developers will complain, but that’s their job, and we’ve done it their way long enough. If a relatively conservative state such as Virginia can pass legislation like this, we can do it in Washington, too. It wont be easy, considering that even the Democratic leadership in Olympia is beholden to the irrational subdivision developer group the BIAW, but with the state look at an ever widening deficit, the time may be right to pass progressive transportation legislation that saves the taxpayers, and their local governments, money.
 
I understand the elderly need more frequent stops, the idea is to have regular 'stations" in most locations, then bring back Sunday stops as well as NEW special stations for the seniors homes out there. What do you think about this, or are you gonna complain about it too???
If you read my post, I was NOT complaining about rationalising stops. I was pointing out that there are sometimes good reasons for stops that seem too close, to many of us.
 
If you read my post, I was NOT complaining about rationalising stops. I was pointing out that there are sometimes good reasons for stops that seem too close, to many of us.

If the city and developers were smart (and they aren't) They would build seniors residences as part of the station.
 
It seems the huge King/Queen/Roncy project is on hold. Gord Perks just sent this out:

I just received the latest update on King- Queensway-Queen-Roncesvalles Project from Chief Engineer, Michael D'Andrea. Please find his email below:
"As you know, in early February, the City issued the tender for the planned project at the intersection at King / The Queensway / Queen / Roncesvalles. This project included: sewer and watermain replacement, replacing the entire TTC overhead and track infrastructure within the intersection and west along The Queensway, Streetscaping, road and intersection works along the Queensway, rehabilitating the bridge over Parkside Drive, removing the right-turn channel at Queensway and King Street and overall intersection / road improvements within the area. Based on feedback received to date from contractors considering the tender, there are areas of construction and design that require additional review and clarity to ensure the construction delivery schedule and budget can be upheld and delivered according to plan.
As a result, the City of Toronto is rescheduling the delivery of this project to 2020.
Efforts are underway between several City Divisions and TTC to firm up the design, schedule, and tender and reporting to the Infrastructure & Environment Committee. We expect to provide additional information to all stakeholders involved (Parkdale BIA / Roncesvalles BIA / St. Joseph's Health Centre) in April – with more details to follow for the residents in the area at a later date.
We understand that the wait and anticipation for this construction has been a long time coming; however, the City and TTC wanted to ensure that the planned construction will be delivered according to the plan, schedule and budget that works to mitigate traffic and TTC service impacts as much as possible. We look forward to meeting with you and stakeholders soon, to further discuss these measures."
 
"due to staff incompetencies, our major project is now delayed by an entire financial year!"

Woohoo!

Somehow I'm not surprised. Does Transportation ever deliver a project on time?
 
"due to staff incompetencies, our major project is now delayed by an entire financial year!"

Woohoo!

Somehow I'm not surprised. Does Transportation ever deliver a project on time?
Yes, the final stage (streetscaping) on Wellington from Yonge to Church that was supposed to start in the summer may also be 'deferred' - to 2021. Though residents, businesses and the BIA are fighting this decision so it MAY be reversed!
 
It seems the huge King/Queen/Roncy project is on hold. Gord Perks just sent this out:

I just received the latest update on King- Queensway-Queen-Roncesvalles Project from Chief Engineer, Michael D'Andrea. Please find his email below:
"As you know, in early February, the City issued the tender for the planned project at the intersection at King / The Queensway / Queen / Roncesvalles. This project included: sewer and watermain replacement, replacing the entire TTC overhead and track infrastructure within the intersection and west along The Queensway, Streetscaping, road and intersection works along the Queensway, rehabilitating the bridge over Parkside Drive, removing the right-turn channel at Queensway and King Street and overall intersection / road improvements within the area. Based on feedback received to date from contractors considering the tender, there are areas of construction and design that require additional review and clarity to ensure the construction delivery schedule and budget can be upheld and delivered according to plan.
As a result, the City of Toronto is rescheduling the delivery of this project to 2020.
Efforts are underway between several City Divisions and TTC to firm up the design, schedule, and tender and reporting to the Infrastructure & Environment Committee. We expect to provide additional information to all stakeholders involved (Parkdale BIA / Roncesvalles BIA / St. Joseph's Health Centre) in April – with more details to follow for the residents in the area at a later date.
We understand that the wait and anticipation for this construction has been a long time coming; however, the City and TTC wanted to ensure that the planned construction will be delivered according to the plan, schedule and budget that works to mitigate traffic and TTC service impacts as much as possible. We look forward to meeting with you and stakeholders soon, to further discuss these measures."

Yep, I just read Steve Munro's article on the matter. The tracks on The Queensway between Sunnyside and Glendale Ave now have a restricted speed zone of 10km or less, so hopefully they don't hold off too long, however am quite happy that 501 will countine to run west of Roncy with streetcars for another year.
 

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