TTC: Streetcar Network

[DSC]

Yep, I just read Steve Munro's article on the matter. The tracks on The Queensway between Sunnyside and Glendale Ave now have a restricted speed zone of 10km or less, so hopefully they don't hold off too long, however am quite happy that 501 will countine to run west of Roncy with streetcars for another year.

Why would you be happy to have slower than normal service for yet another year?

 

[jje1000]

One MAJOR problems with suburban roads in general are the cul-de-sac setup of the residential streets outside of the downtown or old city of Toronto, York, and East York streets.

While the "cul-de-sac" was supposed to make things safer for pedestrians, it actually made things worse. Walking distances to schools, shopping, or bus (transit) stops became longer. You may think the stops are fine being 500m apart or even 1 km apart, but we tend to forget we still have the side streets to traverse along to get to and from. (Must not forget about the sidewalks.)

TBH, some of this is mitigated by the presence of pedestrian walkways and trails in Toronto's suburbs- the problem though is that there usually aren't enough of them, they don't connect enough, and they still don't beat proper street connectivity (which is why 1920-30s garden suburbs are the best form of suburb there is).

I wonder if the solution to this might come through redevelopment, where if the yellow-belt suburbs are opened to densification, the city could institute a masterplan that plans for the addition of additional walkways and possibly even new street connections with new development.

 

[DSC]

Probably a dumb question but I'm gonna ask anyways. When I was in Waterloo the ION had TONS of track lubricators . . .does the streetcar network not have them (never seen them)? If so wouldn't this wear down the wheels?

Edit: Is it possible to have them on the streetcar>

The TTC has some that use water to lubricate at very squeaky corners but of course these are no good in winter and I think they may be phasing them out. You clearly do not want too much track lubrication as the wheels would just spin - in fact they use sand to create extra friction. The old streetcars had sand 'dispensers' under front seats but not sure about the new ones.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

Why would you be happy to have slower than normal service for yet another year?

Because, it isn't buses. And streetcars instead. When the 501L was buses from Long Branch to Dufferin from Jan 2017 to Jun 2018, the buses were actually WAY slower, because they travelling in automobile lanes. Real transit is protection from the automobile gods like on The Queensway.

 

[smallspy]

Probably a dumb question but I'm gonna ask anyways. When I was in Waterloo the ION had TONS of track lubricators . . .does the streetcar network not have them (never seen them)? If so wouldn't this wear down the wheels?

Edit: Is it possible to have them on the streetcar>

The TTC has quite a few track lubricators where they need them. They are usually located at stations, where the tightest curves are. They did experiment with a water system but found that it wasn't as effective, plus needed to be turned off in the winter. The current system uses grease pumps.

And yes, approximately half of the Flexities will have lubricators installed on them.

Dan

 

[TransitBart]

And yes, approximately half of the Flexities will have lubricators installed on them.

Dan

Why would one install lubricators on half a fleet?

 

[nfitz]

Why would one install lubricators on half a fleet?

Presumably because someone thinks that lubrication by every other car (on average) is sufficient. So this saves money.

Why do remote and island toll bridges invariably only toll vehicles in one direction? (edit - this is a rhetorical question)

 

[micheal_can]

Presumably because someone thinks that lubrication by every other car (on average) is sufficient. So this saves money.

Why do remote and island toll bridges invariably only toll vehicles in one direction?

They toll in one direction, otherwise no one would go there in the first place.

 

[smallspy]

They toll in one direction, otherwise no one would go there in the first place.

No, they toll in one direction because the assumption is that at some point the people will be coming back. No point in delaying them twice, thus.

In the case of the lubricators on only half of the fleet, the TTC (and their design consultants) figured that they would only need that much lubrication on the system.

Dan

 

[nfitz]

Presumably because Spadina has frequent service, where you can almost always see one coming. Even at peak, Waterloo is looking at 8 minutes between cars - which is what Spadina gets after midnight.

 

[DSC]

Spadina service is often super infrequent, the current stops are also not very accessible because of all the supports.

The Spadina ROW was 'carved out' of an existing road (as was St Clair) so they had to fit shelters etc into quite tight spaces - it is absolutely different in a 'green-field' location. I think one must live with narrow shelters and supports in the way or have no shelters at all. (The perfect' being the enemy of the ;good' and all that.!)

 

[robmausser]

The Spadina ROW was 'carved out' of an existing road (as was St Clair) so they had to fit shelters etc into quite tight spaces - it is absolutely different in a 'green-field' location. I think one must live with narrow shelters and supports in the way or have no shelters at all. (The perfect' being the enemy of the ;good' and all that.!)

Not True for St.Clair, it started as a streetcar ROW, and was ripped out to create more lanes for cars, and then reinstated as a ROW.

Heres the ROW in 1928

Spadina also was a tree lined ROW, but its a bit different because the entire streetcar system was ripped out, so technically there was a period where it was a road. So your statement is still somewhat true.

Spadina and St.Clair are both wider street areas because of historical streetcar rights of way.... there was no other reason to make those streets so wide back in the day.

Heres a photo of the tree lined ROW on Spadina

 

[Leo_Chan]

I find it both interesting and disappointing that streets at intersections require so much space. They need vehicle thru lanes, vehicle turning lanes, dedicated transit lanes, transit station platforms, and more. If only mid block transit stops with dedicated pedestrian crossing signals and underground transit interchange stations were more common to reduce the width of streets.?

 

[W. K. Lis]

I find it both interesting and disappointing that streets at intersections require so much space. They need vehicle thru lanes, vehicle turning lanes, dedicated transit lanes, transit station platforms, and more. If only mid block transit stops with dedicated pedestrian crossing signals and underground transit interchange stations were more common to reduce the width of streets.?

In the "old" versions of the streetcar right-of-ways for Spadina and St. Clair, there were no left turn lanes. When the right-of-ways were reinstalled, they did so with left turn lanes, which took away sidewalk space.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

I find it both interesting and disappointing that streets at intersections require so much space. They need vehicle thru lanes, vehicle turning lanes, dedicated transit lanes, transit station platforms, and more. If only mid block transit stops with dedicated pedestrian crossing signals and underground transit interchange stations were more common to reduce the width of streets.?

That actually sounds like a good idea. Too bad we rarely see it....