TTC: Streetcar Network

[Amare]

Sorry I meant 507, ie streetcar service west of Roncesvalles car barn. I'm no professional but a great deal of the tracks in new toronto/long branch look very near to the end of their safe usage

Well I mean there's still that track defect that the TTC hasnt addressed just east of Humber Loop even though streetcar service has been pulled for 3+ years. So i'm sure they'll shut things down again as soon as they feel like finally addressing the issue.

 

[max]

They've put back most of the support wires for streetcar overhead between Yonge & York. It does look like they'll need to come back for one more of them just east of Bay as they're missing a pole on the North side. Also all overhead on York from Queen down to Wellington was removed a bit ago, presumably as part of the project to add the southbound track.

 

[max]

Well I mean there's still that track defect that the TTC hasnt addressed just east of Humber Loop even though streetcar service has been pulled for 3+ years. So i'm sure they'll shut things down again as soon as they feel like finally addressing the issue.

So I think I read this somewhere on @Steve Munro 's site, though I could be misremembering. IIRC, the issue on the Queensway East of the Humber Loop is that trolley poles had a tendency to de-wire on the curve. Since the service would be restored with pantographs, they can presumably lift the restriction as the fix is on the streetcar side of traction power.

 

[DSC]

They've put back most of the support wires for streetcar overhead between Yonge & York. It does look like they'll need to come back for one more of them just east of Bay as they're missing a pole on the North side. Also all overhead on York from Queen down to Wellington was removed a bit ago, presumably as part of the project to add the southbound track.

Yes, they have been working on the new overhead on Wellington from Church (or actually King) to York and, as you say, one pole still needs to be replaced east of Bay. (Last week it was two so they ARE making progress. ) There is still no overhead on York from Wellington to King and, as I have noted elsewhere, I suspect the TTC will suddenly notice that the poles on York between Wellington and King are the old (thin) variety so they too will need to be replaced. Unless it was removed very recently, the overhead from King to Queen (northbound) is still all there. When they add the new southbound track from Queen to Adelaide, it will clearly also need overhead. I understand from Steve Munro that they will not be adding a southbound track from Adelaide to King at the moment - though this would allow much better diversions. It MAY be added when King tracks are replaced in 2025 or 2026

 

[max]

Unless it was removed very recently, the overhead from King to Queen (northbound) is still all there.

It was gone at the beginning of the week, at least that's when I first noticed. It's everything too, over all the tangent track and every intersection with the exception of King & York which is still active and won't need modifications for the southbound track anyway.

 

[Jonny5]

I understand from Steve Munro that they will not be adding a southbound track from Adelaide to King at the moment - though this would allow much better diversions. It MAY be added when King tracks are replaced in 2025 or 2026

I'm running through diversion scenarios in my mind and I can't think of any value of southbound track connecting to King outside of very remote chance situations like both Queen and Adelaide are blocked for eastbound 501s?

Maybe it might be helpful for traffic flow if the two way York Street was extended down to Wellington then, as if it isn't I guess you force southbound drivers to turn west on King, which is useless I think except for maybe couriers who already park in that curb lane, only they would be going south instead of north. It would seem like half of York Street there would never be used by anyone ever, TTC or otherwise.

 

[DSC]

It was gone at the beginning of the week, at least that's when I first noticed. It's everything too, over all the tangent track and every intersection with the exception of King & York which is still active and won't need modifications for the southbound track anyway.

Interesting, the overhead on York north of King (over the existing northbound track) was fairly new but, maybe, if/when they add the new southbound track the overhead (or the supporting structure needs to be changed for both?) I assume they will be starting the trackwork on York soon - this project is still, apparently, being done by Metrolinx.

 

[max]

I'm running through diversion scenarios in my mind and I can't think of any value of southbound track connecting to King outside of very remote chance situations like both Queen and Adelaide are blocked for eastbound 501s?

It would be a benefit for 504 cars to get back onto King sooner when they divert along Adelaide. Without it they have to wait until Spadina on the west and Church to the East. There's also this little annual event that I can think of that operates from Spadina to University which would make such a diversion useful.

Maybe it might be helpful for traffic flow if the two way York Street was extended down to Wellington then, as if it isn't I guess you force southbound drivers to turn west on King, which is useless I think except for maybe couriers who already park in that curb lane, only they would be going south instead of north. It would seem like half of York Street there would never be used by anyone ever, TTC or otherwise.

York street's one-way configuration stopped making sense a long time ago. There's only one northbound lane coming from Front which would be a bottleneck that should dictate not needing more than the standard two NB lanes North of Wellington. Anyone doing deliveries can just plan their route to approach from the opposite direction (or pull a U-turn) to get those west side spots.

I do wonder if there's going to be a lot of driver confusion at Adelaide as it's not like the two West side lanes could just be converted into left turn lanes, and it's going to be quite a jog to get yourself over to continue North, the only available direction of travel from those lanes. I'm with you on extending two-way down to Wellington.

 

[Amare]

So I think I read this somewhere on @Steve Munro 's site, though I could be misremembering. IIRC, the issue on the Queensway East of the Humber Loop is that trolley poles had a tendency to de-wire on the curve. Since the service would be restored with pantographs, they can presumably lift the restriction as the fix is on the streetcar side of traction power.

Hmm interesting that may have been an additional issue. However there was also a defect in the trackwork there that was discovered shortly after the Queensway ROW reconstruction project was completed.

 

[DSC]

I'm with you on extending two-way down to Wellington.

Extending York St southbound to King makes sense to me (for TTC and other vehicles) as one can then turn east or west at King. Extending York southbound as far as Wellington seems a bit pointless as you would then only be able to turn west -probably better to use one of the lanes for deliveries and courrier parking. Extending to Front would make the York/University/Front junction even worse and we would lose the wide sidewalk on east side of York too.

 

[turini2]

For those that haven't seen it - the Carto metro map is a great way to see the layout of the streetcar network - and the out of service / diversion trackage.

 

[max]

Extending York St southbound to King makes sense to me (for TTC and other vehicles) as one can then turn east or west at King. Extending York southbound as far as Wellington seems a bit pointless as you would then only be able to turn west -probably better to use one of the lanes for deliveries and courrier parking. Extending to Front would make the York/University/Front junction even worse and we would lose the wide sidewalk on east side of York too.

For me I started with the question of how is a one-way York street that no longer extends past Adelaide, of benefit to anyone? As far as I can tell there is none to any part north of Wellington. Deliveries & courier parking can happen on both sides in either configuration. Also, I agree with you that south of Wellington to Front would create chaos at the YUF intersection. Furthermore, and this is my main concern, I believe the transition from two way to one way is a liability as it creates a place where a head-on collision is more likely. That's why I favour extending two-way traffic all the way to Wellington, as then the place you create a two-way meeting a one-way probably wouldn't have much NB traffic because of the single lane bottle-neck coming up from Front rather than the four lane speedway that currently extends north of Wellington.

 

[mossynukes]

not sure if this has been discussed before but I have a quick question. Once the Ontario line is complete, what will likely happen to the 501? will it not run between moss park and Spadina and run two different branches or will there be no change?

 

[DSC]

not sure if this has been discussed before but I have a quick question. Once the Ontario line is complete, what will likely happen to the 501? will it not run between moss park and Spadina and run two different branches or will there be no change?

I doubt anyone has thought about this, it will be MANY years before the Ontario Line is finished and by then we will all see the advantages (or disadvantages) of splitting the 501. One problem of splitting a route is that you really need loops well 'past' downtown so that a person coming from 'one side' does not have to change streetcars because they need to go a bit out of downtown on the 'other side'. The TTC has land for a loop at Queen and Broadview and this would probably be a good location for an 'eastern loop'.

 

[drum118]

not sure if this has been discussed before but I have a quick question. Once the Ontario line is complete, what will likely happen to the 501? will it not run between moss park and Spadina and run two different branches or will there be no change?

same as to today and in the past