TTC: Sheppard Subway Expansion (Speculative)

[ssiguy2]

Well even if Ford gets pennies from a private partner or forgets the idea althoghether there is no doubt that there will be at least 4km regardless which is a start.
He will still get the $350 million from the feds and the province, as I understand it, will allow him to take up to $650 million in savings from the Eglinton line and put it towards Sheppard. There is no chance in hell that Ford will demand any construction projects in the city be built with only union labour. That will save at least 10% of construction costs and Sheppard will have smaller, less expensive station than the Taj Mahal Spadina extension.
Ford has billion dollars of public money to spend and he will make sure it goes as far as it can unlike Miller who was a slave to the unions. Dictating that all city construction tenders go out to only union wage levels is an obscene waste of funds, vote buying in the extreme, and an affront to the tax payers of the city.

 

[nfitz]

There is no chance in hell that Ford will demand any construction projects in the city be built with only union labour. That will save at least 10% of construction costs ...

Construction contracts are awarded to the lowest bidder - look at the companies bidding on construction - these are the same companies bidding on major private construction contracts. You can you possibly quantify something like that?

This anti-union stuff sounds like the paranoid rantings of a mentally ill person wearing tinfoil!

 

[wopchop]

All of the big construction companies with the ability to bid on these projects are going to be using unionized labour anyway, regardless of whether it is mandated by the city or not.

 

[Asterix]

He will still get the $350 million from the feds and the province, as I understand it, will allow him to take up to $650 million in savings from the Eglinton line and put it towards Sheppard.

Other than Doug Ford stating he knows "for a fact" that Eglinton will come under budget, what evidence do you have to make such an assertion?

They've got a hard ceiling on what the province is contributing yet they apparently don't know yet if they are going to bridge the Don River crossings or spend gobs of money tunneling under them (which will also require neighbouring stations being much deeper (ie expensive) than would otherwise be required.

There is no chance in hell that Ford will demand any construction projects in the city be built with only union labour.

As others have already pointed out, this is yet another statement of yours showing you have no understanding of what you speak.

That will save at least 10% of construction costs and Sheppard will have smaller, less expensive station than the Taj Mahal Spadina extension.

Seriously, what is it that qualifies a station as a 'Taj Mahal'? A few million on design?

If you aren't already aware, the stations are built by digging a big hole, putting in the station box and then covering it back up. They can spend a lot of money putting most of the dirt back in or they can spend less money and leave most of the hole open. One looks cheaper and costs more, the other costs less and has people complaining about 'Taj Mahals'.

Sure, one could argue that $3, 4 or 5 million dollars extra on station architecture, landscaping and otherwise making it look good is a waste, but as penny-pinching Doug Ford said with respect to $5 million for paid duty cops out of a $1 billion budget, we're talking small potatoes when it comes to the cost of the overall subway line.

Dictating that all city construction tenders go out to only union wage levels is an obscene waste of funds, vote buying in the extreme, and an affront to the tax payers of the city.

Whereas dictating that all subway/LRT construction will be underground at an extra cost of $2 billion, regardless of available land for road widening while cutting two lines that would provide better transit to thousands of under-serviced taxpayers in order to pay for it is not an affront to the taxpayers of the city?

 

[BMO]

Other than Doug Ford stating he knows "for a fact" that Eglinton will come under budget, what evidence do you have to make such an assertion?

It's been stated many times before that the feds are already allocating their portion of the SELRT to this project, and there have been many statements made by both the province and the city saying that the Eglinton LRT will likely end up costing $650 million less than planned.

 

[Asterix]

It's been stated many times before that the feds are already allocating their portion of the SELRT to this project, and there have been many statements made by both the province and the city saying that the Eglinton LRT will likely end up costing $650 million less than planned.

Is that with the Don River crossings being handled by bridging or tunneling?

Are those two costs nearly equivalent or will the difference be a sizable chunk of that claimed $650 million?

What are the forecast future costs for construction equipment, material and energy (fuel)? Will they be more or less than budgeted? (Ok, what would be your best guess as to whether those things won't rise much in cost?)

 

[BMO]

Is that with the Don River crossings being handled by bridging or tunneling?

Are those two costs nearly equivalent or will the difference be a sizable chunk of that claimed $650 million?

What are the forecast future costs for construction equipment, material and energy (fuel)? Will they be more or less than budgeted? (Ok, what would be your best guess as to whether those things won't rise much in cost?)

I can't say for sure, because anything can happen, but last I heard the quote of $650 million savings was for the whole line including the DV crossing.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Forecasting a $650-million savings for a project that isn't set for completion until 2020 strikes me as staggeringly optimistic.

Though scraping together a billion dollars and doing a small Sheppard extension (either west or east) strikes me as exactly the kind of thing this administration might do to avoid wearing egg on their face.

 

[nfitz]

As Ford has promised the Sheppard subway will be complete in 2015, I don't really know how $600-million that we won't find out if it is available until 2020 is going to help.

 

[GraphicMatt]

History has been revised to show that at no time did the mayor promise a subway by 2015.

 

[gweed123]

Though scraping together a billion dollars and doing a small Sheppard extension (either west or east) strikes me as exactly the kind of thing this administration might do to avoid wearing egg on their face.

My bet is on a small extension to Victoria Park, if nothing else than for a token expansion with a nice ribbon cutting ceremony for Ford.

 

[GraphicMatt]

It seems incredibly inefficient to relocate the terminus of the line a few kilometres, especially if the long-term plan is to expand eastwards again.

If they're going to spend money on a token Sheppard extension, I'd almost rather they do Sheppard West, though the utility of that line seems hard to quantify. Useful primarily as a mechanism to relieve Yonge once it's extended up to Richmond Hill, I guess.

 

[BMO]

It seems incredibly inefficient to relocate the terminus of the line a few kilometres, especially if the long-term plan is to expand eastwards again.

If they're going to spend money on a token Sheppard extension, I'd almost rather they do Sheppard West, though the utility of that line seems hard to quantify. Useful primarily as a mechanism to relieve Yonge once it's extended up to Richmond Hill, I guess.

Also would improve the ridership on the spadina extension for York U students coming from the east end. And people going to Yorkdale from the Yonge line or east-end, as well.

 

[Asterix]

Also would improve the ridership on the spadina extension for York U students coming from the east end. And people going to Yorkdale from the Yonge line or east-end, as well.

A good benchmark for the utility of such a Sheppard extension would be the 196 York Express bus whose B branch runs from Yonge & Sheppard, stopping once at Bathurst and then at Downsview. The running time for the Yonge to Downsview stretch running express would not be much more than subway so there should be few riders of this future line who aren't currently taking this bus.

Any York students coming from the east end who would take the Sheppard extension would currently be taking this bus from Yonge, as would people going to Yorkdale from the Yonge line or east end.

Even at peak frequency during the school year, this bus runs every 5 - 6 minutes at best and those buses are no where near at capacity when they arrive at Downsview (where they bulk of the 196 riders, both A and B branches, get on).

That is not the kind of demand that should justify a subway in light of all the higher priority routes.

 

[BMO]

A good benchmark for the utility of such a Sheppard extension would be the 196 York Express bus whose B branch runs from Yonge & Sheppard, stopping once at Bathurst and then at Downsview. The running time for the Yonge to Downsview stretch running express would not be much more than subway so there should be few riders of this future line who aren't currently taking this bus.

Any York students coming from the east end who would take the Sheppard extension would currently be taking this bus from Yonge, as would people going to Yorkdale from the Yonge line or east end.

Even at peak frequency during the school year, this bus runs every 5 - 6 minutes at best and those buses are no where near at capacity when they arrive at Downsview (where they bulk of the 196 riders, both A and B branches, get on).

That is not the kind of demand that should justify a subway in light of all the higher priority routes.

To be honest, I live at yonge and steeles, and because I have to transfer at sheppard to get across to downsview, I just drive. I imagine a lot of people have this mentality as well.