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TTC: Other Items (catch all)
- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Bob Kinnear started as a janitor in 1988 at age 18 and worked his way up as bus operator, subway guard/operator before becoming union head. From link.
Probably needs to reapply and get retested for the Driver's License Class B before he can drive any bus. Think his old janitor job is not a Local 113 job anymore.
Probably needs to reapply and get retested for the Driver's License Class B before he can drive any bus. Think his old janitor job is not a Local 113 job anymore.
Johnny Au
Senior Member
Take a look at the New York City subway map:
Not many cities aside from New York City display parks on their subway maps.
DSC
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And there are FAR more parks in NYC than are shown on the NYC map - like Toronto NYC shows major parks only.
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
In Defense of the TTC
https://medium.com/@human.encyclopedia.rick/in-defense-of-the-ttc-9a9d2141984d
.....
- Many Torontonians have mocked the subway network for being too small and having only 2.5 lines. Many also look to New York, Tokyo, and London’s subway systems with envy. Toronto, however, is not New York, Tokyo, or London; it has at most 1/6th the metropolitan population of those cities, and a smaller fraction of their densities. For a mid-size North American city, its subway network beats many larger major cities like Boston, Philadelphia, and LA. In addition, many cities larger than Toronto like Dallas don’t even have subway systems. The subway network is also larger than many cities elsewhere on earth, including global metropolises like Amsterdam and Rome. So while it’s okay to dream for a subway system that rivals New York, let’s not forget that the TTC’s subway system punches above its weight.
- Imagine barely missing the train and having to wait 20–30 minutes for the next train. That’s what people in other cities, even New York, have to deal with. A subway line is only as useful as the service provided on it. The TTC has ensured no line in the subway system has a frequency lower than 5 minutes at any time. New York, meanwhile, has sections where the train comes every 20 minutes outside of rush hour. DC and San Francisco have trains arriving every 8 minutes even during rush hour. Even in European cities like Frankfurt and Paris, service is up to twice as sparse as the TTC. And in 2018, after a lot of work completed during weekend closures, automated control will be implemented, enabling the TTC to run trains every 105 seconds, matching Vancouver as one of the most frequent metro systems in the world.
- Toronto also has a very robust bus and streetcar network. Like most bus networks, it covers all areas of Toronto. But Toronto is unique in the fact that every inch of the city from Scarborough to Etobicoke is within a 20 minute walk to one of 52 frequent bus, streetcar, or subway route that comes every 10 minutes or less, even at midnight. Other cities can’t even come close to this service. LA has huge swaths of the city that don’t have access to reliable and frequent bus service. Minneapolis, a similar-sized city to Toronto, only has five routes that all converge downtown. No other city comes close to the level of bus/streetcar service Toronto, New York, Chicago, Montreal, and Vancouver have. The TTC often gets derided for its delays, but in actuality, it’s among the most reliable systems in the world and has relatively few delays compared to other transit agencies.
.....
https://medium.com/@human.encyclopedia.rick/in-defense-of-the-ttc-9a9d2141984d
.....
- Many Torontonians have mocked the subway network for being too small and having only 2.5 lines. Many also look to New York, Tokyo, and London’s subway systems with envy. Toronto, however, is not New York, Tokyo, or London; it has at most 1/6th the metropolitan population of those cities, and a smaller fraction of their densities. For a mid-size North American city, its subway network beats many larger major cities like Boston, Philadelphia, and LA. In addition, many cities larger than Toronto like Dallas don’t even have subway systems. The subway network is also larger than many cities elsewhere on earth, including global metropolises like Amsterdam and Rome. So while it’s okay to dream for a subway system that rivals New York, let’s not forget that the TTC’s subway system punches above its weight.
- Imagine barely missing the train and having to wait 20–30 minutes for the next train. That’s what people in other cities, even New York, have to deal with. A subway line is only as useful as the service provided on it. The TTC has ensured no line in the subway system has a frequency lower than 5 minutes at any time. New York, meanwhile, has sections where the train comes every 20 minutes outside of rush hour. DC and San Francisco have trains arriving every 8 minutes even during rush hour. Even in European cities like Frankfurt and Paris, service is up to twice as sparse as the TTC. And in 2018, after a lot of work completed during weekend closures, automated control will be implemented, enabling the TTC to run trains every 105 seconds, matching Vancouver as one of the most frequent metro systems in the world.
- Toronto also has a very robust bus and streetcar network. Like most bus networks, it covers all areas of Toronto. But Toronto is unique in the fact that every inch of the city from Scarborough to Etobicoke is within a 20 minute walk to one of 52 frequent bus, streetcar, or subway route that comes every 10 minutes or less, even at midnight. Other cities can’t even come close to this service. LA has huge swaths of the city that don’t have access to reliable and frequent bus service. Minneapolis, a similar-sized city to Toronto, only has five routes that all converge downtown. No other city comes close to the level of bus/streetcar service Toronto, New York, Chicago, Montreal, and Vancouver have. The TTC often gets derided for its delays, but in actuality, it’s among the most reliable systems in the world and has relatively few delays compared to other transit agencies.
.....
Megaton327
Senior Member
[citation needed] - nitpicking here as I otherwise agree with the article, but I don't believe that's the case during the day, and certainly not at midnight. The 10 minute network is an advertising slogan, near-nonexistent route management and traffic prevent it from actually existing.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
It sounds like someone is writing an apologia - is the writer even comparing apples to apples when quoting delay stats? And those stats only apply to subway in the case of the TTC (streetcar and bus on time stats are predictably more mixed), not TTC at large and it's meaningless to talk about delay without talking about relative impact (i.e. when it matters - such as rush). Beyond that - I find picking the bottom of the barrel for comparators counterproductive at best.
Bringing up Vancouver as an example of system failure is particularly bizarre, considering the multitudes of signal issues (some severe) TTC have had over the past 5 years - plus the one time when a good chunk of the network went completely down due to the HQ issue.
AoD
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Steve X
Senior Member
That's correct. TTC is the best transit system in Canada follow by Montreal. Vancouver is okay.
The majority 95% of the population lives within a reasonable walk to a bust stop and within 15 min. walk for overnight service. Go to Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa and talk overnight service and you'll know it doesn't really exist except a couple busy corridor. Calgary might have a good LRT system but they bus supporting network is garbage. It rarely comes and goes in loops to service people. Except Montreal, no other Canadian cities have a 10 minute frequent network. Vancouver's frequent network is 15 min. TTC's frequent network is very very very good servicing from start of service to 1 am. Montreal only does 6am-9pm and half of the 10-min. routes are offer in one direction only. TTC is developing a good limited stop (express) network while many North American cities are way behind.
It is because the TTC is a very good system that's underfunded that leads to overcapacity and all the delays that occur. If the system wasn't that worn out with frequent train services matching Asian cities, there wouldn't be as many mechanical issues.
The majority 95% of the population lives within a reasonable walk to a bust stop and within 15 min. walk for overnight service. Go to Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa and talk overnight service and you'll know it doesn't really exist except a couple busy corridor. Calgary might have a good LRT system but they bus supporting network is garbage. It rarely comes and goes in loops to service people. Except Montreal, no other Canadian cities have a 10 minute frequent network. Vancouver's frequent network is 15 min. TTC's frequent network is very very very good servicing from start of service to 1 am. Montreal only does 6am-9pm and half of the 10-min. routes are offer in one direction only. TTC is developing a good limited stop (express) network while many North American cities are way behind.
It is because the TTC is a very good system that's underfunded that leads to overcapacity and all the delays that occur. If the system wasn't that worn out with frequent train services matching Asian cities, there wouldn't be as many mechanical issues.
JoEddie7677
New Member
It is very easy to complain about the TTC and it's many issues but I think it is important to place these issues in context. Bus bunching, signal train issues, surly drivers, poor headway maintenance, excessive running times, etc. are common throughout North America and Europe. I lived in London recently in a suburb similar to Scarborough. The bus route I lived on which had frequent scheduled service was often subject to bus bunching and short turns with the next bus 10-15 min away leaving behind huge crowds. While the tube in London is very impressive for its size it's main goal is to bring access to the core and does nothing for intra suburb travel. Buses are slow as the streets are designed with an urbanism mindset. No A/C on any mode of public transport. One of the other bus routes I travelled in London often had to hold at time points similar to the annoying experiences I had at the TTC. It is important to understand while using the TTC can be a frustrating and miserable experience many of its problems are inherent throughout worldwide transit systems. It is a miracle that the TTC can offer such comprehensive service with the funding it is received.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Desperate in so many ways, but that takes the cake.
https://pedestrianobservations.word...-frequency-guidelines-are-the-wrong-approach/
And yes, some service is reduced to 20 min headway, after 2 a.m., when Toronto has NO subway service. Figure it out....feel free to use your fingers...
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steveintoronto
Superstar
You really want to talk about London and TfL? Any time, and London, my birthplace, and many time work sojourn return, can be a very unforgiving place, and the tube was insufferable, but it's come a hell of a long way in even the last decade. Why? Investment, and "intra suburb" travel was the cause d'etre of the Metropolitan and District lines, and later the Central and other tubes, not to mention the close to a hundred separate commuter heavy rail runs across and around sections of London. There are still twenty + passenger heavy rail lines radiating out of the city. The major complaint? Cost, roughly five times the European average per distance...a whole other issue I'd just love to discuss in detail....but let's really examine this one claim of yours:
"does nothing for intra suburb travel".
I have a game show question for you: "What is Crossrail?"...And where is Toronto's equivalent?
http://www.crossrail.co.uk/route/
And then there's the Overground, where's SmartTrack?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Overground
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Steve X
Senior Member
NYC subway is pretty frequent for it's network. Many of their subway services (not correct to be called lines) may seen infrequent but multiple subway services operate on one line in the higher demand part of the route. Split services avoids terminal bunching that we have on the TTC. TTC and many other metro systems only operates one service on one line only.
MTA never refers 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,A,B,etc as lines.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_York_City_Subway_services
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_York_City_Subway_lines
Technically we have more than 4 lines on the TTC by MTA's definition.
1. Bloor Line
2. Danforth Line
3. Yonge Line
4. University Line
5. Spadina Line
6. Scarborough RT line
7. Sheppard Line
NYC has 25 subway services and 36 lines
TTC has 4 subway services and 7 lines
When the BD line opened in 1966, multiple services operate on one line.
MTA never refers 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,A,B,etc as lines.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_York_City_Subway_services
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_York_City_Subway_lines
Technically we have more than 4 lines on the TTC by MTA's definition.
1. Bloor Line
2. Danforth Line
3. Yonge Line
4. University Line
5. Spadina Line
6. Scarborough RT line
7. Sheppard Line
NYC has 25 subway services and 36 lines
TTC has 4 subway services and 7 lines
When the BD line opened in 1966, multiple services operate on one line.
JoEddie7677
New Member
I meant travel within nearby suburbs. For example in the suburb I lived in Walthamstow there is a Central Station. In order to get to Stratford Centre located in a suburb directly below it one has to take a line west. Then backtrack on to another line to get back to the Centre. Both of these Lines are OverThe most direct bus route between these two popular destinations which is only approximately 5 km can take more than 30 minutes during rush hour. Cross rail is a regional rail line which will not help with the issue that many London commuters will be forced to travel short distances on a slow bus for long periods of time because the rail network is radial and often not useful for short trips within nearby suburbs.
steveintoronto
Superstar
The Overground map I posted as an addendum to my previous post. Look, no matter which way you cut it, it's a hell of a lot easier getting around London by transit than it is in Toronto.
Toronto is far from being a terrible transit city, but it's not a good one either, by any means! Why this sudden surge of apologists for Toronto dire state of transit? Even the Toronto's former transit and political honchos are lamenting what a sorry state Toronto is in for transit. London is far from perfect, especially compared to some other European cities, but it's still a generation or two ahead of Toronto. And that's not hard...
