TTC: New Fare Gate Installation

[DSC]

The Presto system is programmed with all legal transfers to and from the subway and other routes right now. They did have trouble with a few of them that they may still be working on ie 121 front street doesn't alow a transfer to union station. Individual RFID paper tickets will only be used for single use fares, once Tickets and Tokens go the way of the Dodo.

You are, again, not being 100% accurate, or at least currrent. The TTC fixed the 121 transfer @ Union(and a few similar glitches) situation last summer. Of course, the whole cottage industry to programing Presto to cope with the strange TTC transfer rules is coming to an end - one of the huge advantages of timed transfers is that they no longer have to do this work and the system will be able to cope with transfers when a route is on diversion. Two hours is two hours.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

You are, again, not being 100% accurate, or at least currrent. The TTC fixed the 121 transfer @ Union(and a few similar glitches) situation last summer. Of course, the whole cottage industry to programing Presto to cope with the strange TTC transfer rules is coming to an end - one of the huge advantages of timed transfers is that they no longer have to do this work and the system will be able to cope with transfers when a route is on diversion. Two hours is two hours.

I honestly doubt that the transfer rules will change completely to accommodate two-hour transfers, all I see them doing is just changing the amount of time you can use one for and it will happen because they won't bother to reimplement everything all over again. Two-hour transfers are just going to lead to a fare increase in 2019, the only reason we aren' having one this year is becue of Mayor Tory nit wanting have one because of the election.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Of course, but like the presto gates will it take 8 years to fully convert the buses so that its seamless? Given the timeline of the gates and them already phasing out ticket collectors the buses should have already had the new rfid ticket dispensers by now, but afaik they still have thermal printers. Of course I'm remote so I might be uninformed.

But it would have been way cheaper and easier to fit the gates with qr code readers like Ottawa than refitting every vehicle in the fleet. It wouldn't have changed anything else about the presto rollout. OC Transpo only needed to make a software update to the existing thermal printers at a fraction of the cost, even with the gates maybe being slightly more expensive then the Toronto version with both kinds of reader.

Not really all they have to do is instead of issuing transfers to bus drivers issue the RFID ticket and then they just need to deal with the machines for the streetcars. The new stations already have in place the new machines to buy your fare from most people probably don't use them as they already have a Presto card, it's just the people in Toronto that need to realise that they need to get a preto card.

 

[Richard White]

I honestly doubt that the transfer rules will change completely to accommodate two-hour transfers, all I see them doing is just changing the amount of time you can use one for and it will happen because they won't bother to reimplement everything all over again. Two-hour transfers are just going to lead to a fare increase in 2019, the only reason we aren' having one this year is becue of Mayor Tory nit wanting have one because of the election.

Why would they so such a thing? Everywhere else is a 2 hour transfer irrespective of where it is taken.

When I took DRT yesterday I got off at Altona and Highway 2. An hour and a half later I got back on at the same stop (in the other direction) going back home to Scarborough.

My point is that overcomplicating things would not be in Tory or the TTCs best interests. Having to return to the stop within in 2 hours changes nothing, being able to get off midblock, shop and return home on the same ticket changes everything.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

Not really all they have to do is instead of issuing transfers to bus drivers issue the RFID ticket and then they just need to deal with the machines for the streetcars. The new stations already have in place the new machines to buy your fare from most people probably don't use them as they already have a Presto card, it's just the people in Toronto that need to realise that they need to get a preto card.

The paper Presto ticket has to be activated somehow. You started your journey on the bus without a presto card, so it would need to be activated at the time that it's given to you. That requires a new machine on each bus (I'm not talking about those big vending machines on the streetcars).

That's the part OC Transpo balked at and why they went the QR code route for non presto users. As a side benefit, it allowed some cool things such as letting your print at home Red Blacks game ticket also be your transit pass for 2 hours before and after a game. They deliberately put less parking at TD Place because all tickets have transit fares included.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The paper Presto ticket has to be activated somehow. You started your journey on the bus without a presto card, so it would need to be activated at the time that it's given to you. That requires a new machine on each bus (I'm not talking about those big vending machines on the streetcars).

That's the part OC Transpo balked at and why they went the QR code route for non presto users. As a side benefit, it allowed some cool things such as letting your print at home Red Blacks game ticket also be your transit pass for 2 hours before and after a game. They deliberately put less parking at TD Place because all tickets have transit fares included.

Likely the validation would be a timestamp. So that two-hour period starts from that timestamp, which would be shown to the fare inspector upon request.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

I don't know, this is sounding very half baked. So if I understand correctly, what we're guessing here is that if I show up in Toronto and pay cash to get onto a bus (because even though I have presto, an octranspo monthly pass is useless on the TTc, you have to have money in the e-purse) I might get a pre activated presto card that might be time-stamped somehow that would let me through the gate, but nobody knows for sure despite them being on track to remove all ticket collectors very soon who checked the old printed transfers. Shouldn't this all be well known by now and not guessed? There is zero info on the TTC website which still talks about the current transfer system. I suppose I might end up wandering around a station trying to find one of those red vested "customer service ambassadors" since it looks to me I likely will have a paper transfer in hand with no way to pass the new fare gates.

As long as I start my trip on a streetcar or subway I'm golden because I'll definitely have a paper Presto ticket from a machine.

 

[DSC]

I honestly doubt that the transfer rules will change completely to accommodate two-hour transfers, all I see them doing is just changing the amount of time you can use one for and it will happen because they won't bother to reimplement everything all over again. Two-hour transfers are just going to lead to a fare increase in 2019, the only reason we aren' having one this year is becue of Mayor Tory nit wanting have one because of the election.

Though you can certainly manage to get 2 hours of travel out of PRESTO now you cannot do so if you try to re-enter subway or, sometimes, if you get on same surface route. The fact that they clearly DID have problems with the transfers of 121 @ Union and other routes proves that the current programing of PRESTO takes location into account (or tries to.)
You are, of course, right that no fare increase this year is connected to the election - whether having 2-hour transfers will make the inevitable 2019 increase greater is a matter of debate.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I don't know, this is sounding very half baked. So if I understand correctly, what we're guessing here is that if I show up in Toronto and pay cash to get onto a bus (because even though I have presto, an octranspo monthly pass is useless on the TTc, you have to have money in the e-purse) I might get a pre activated presto card that might be time-stamped somehow that would let me through the gate, but nobody knows for sure despite them being on track to remove all ticket collectors very soon who checked the old printed transfers. Shouldn't this all be well known by now and not guessed? There is zero info on the TTC website which still talks about the current transfer system. I suppose I might end up wandering around a station trying to find one of those red vested "customer service ambassadors" since it looks to me I likely will have a paper transfer in hand with no way to pass the new fare gates.

As long as I start my trip on a streetcar or subway I'm golden because I'll definitely have a paper Presto ticket from a machine.

Why if you have a Presto card and you are traveling outside of your home city would you not have money on it. I currently have a metropas on mine along with a balance of $20 just in case I need it for another system other then the TTC.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

Why if you have a Presto card and you are traveling outside of your home city would you not have money on it. I currently have a metropas on mine along with a balance of $20 just in case I need it for another system other then the TTC.

Sigh... You are totally missing the point of my hypothetical scenario.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Sigh... You are totally missing the point of my hypothetical scenario.

Not really as it doesn't make sence to me to not have a balance on my Presto card as well as a pass. But then again I live in Toronto and have more systems I can use it on then someone in Ottawa.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

Not really as it doesn't make sence to me to not have a balance on my Presto card as well as a pass. But then again I live in Toronto and have more systems I can use it on then someone in Ottawa.

I don't mean I actually don't have money on my presto card (I do), I was a hypothetical visitor. Pretend I said "compass card" and I'm from Vancouver instead. The point is they seem to have not fully thought out the presto rollout. It looks like some parts (gates and no ticket collectors) are ahead of how they handle existing cash users, who are often tourists or very occasional riders.

As an addendum, a lot of Ottawa riders wouldn't know they have to have cash on their card in addition to the pass. They would only discover that when tapping at the gate. The only other system here (STO on the Quebec side) honors our passes and vice versa with no additional fare required.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I don't mean I actually don't have money on my presto card (I do), I was a hypothetical visitor. Pretend I said "compass card" and I'm from Vancouver instead. The point is they seem to have not fully thought out the presto rollout. It looks like some parts (gates and no ticket collectors) are ahead of how they handle existing cash users, who are often tourists or very occasional riders.

As an addendum, a lot of Ottawa riders wouldn't know they have to have cash on their card in addition to the pass. They would only discover that when tapping at the gate. The only other system here (STO on the Quebec side) honors our passes and vice versa with no additional fare required.

The way public transit is going now if I was going to use it in another city I would look up to see if they have a fare card and if it is worth getting before I go or picking one up once I'm in town.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

The way public transit is going now if I was going to use it in another city I would look up to see if they have a fare card and if it is worth getting before I go or picking one up once I'm in town.

As would anybody in this board, but we're not the average.

I suppose the TTC could be going the same way as TransLink or the MBTA where you actually don't get the right to transfer onto a train or have the 2 hour transfer unless you have a farecard (and some news articles make me think that's the way they are going). When they introduced compass faregates in Vancouver bus users lost the right to transfer.

https://www.translink.ca/Fares-and-Passes/Transferring.aspx

I think I prefer Ottawa's strategy though. It's now a single fare for the whole system, and there's not different classes of users on how you pay, plus the new way fares are bundled into event tickets to encourage transit use. I wouldn't usually call OcTranspo a leader in anything, but in this one regard I think we're now ahead with how we rolled out the new faregates vs Toronto, which seems to be becoming more restrictive

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

As would anybody in this board, but we're not the average.

I beg to differ on that as I said many cities around the world have them now and many people use them on a daily basis, plus if you land at the airport in Toronto and take the Up express Preto is right in your face right away. When my parents travel to England and they plan to visit London they now borrow Oyster cards from a frind before they go.

I think I prefer Ottawa's strategy though. It's now a single fare for the whole system, and there's not different classes of users on how you pay, plus the new way fares are bundled into event tickets to encourage transit use. I wouldn't usually call OcTranspo a leader in anything, but in this one regard I think we're now ahead with how we rolled out the new faregates vs Toronto, which seems to be becoming more restrictive

Toronto is one fare across the system unless you are going by having discounts for Seniors and High Scholl students (high school student discounts are paid for by the two school boards in Toronto by the way). As far as adding in the cost of transit to events goes there are way too many events going on in the city of Toronto on any given day and not everyone is willing to take public Transit to it to make it even a thought to add it into the cost of aticket.