TTC: New Articulated Buses (In Delivery, Novabus)

[rbt]

"Fiscal conservatives" looking for cuts and "efficiencies", preferably with no actual background in transit.

They don't have a background in business either. Someone with a business background would not trim service quality when your customer base is growing but the primary complaint is about poor service quality; you bump up the price and try to further improve service. Price is rarely mentioned when you ask drivers why they don't use transit; they mention time of travel, crowding, etc.

Someone with actual business sense would have bumped the fare by ~20% (boost until ridership stops growing) and shoved a ton of cash into making all buses run faster (BRT everywhere). Let improved service bring in more while making further improvements with operating savings.

Of course, transit isn't a business either, but don't believe for a second that Ford or Stintz have a head for business. First thing they canned was the cheap Transit City Bus Plan. The new bus garage has been on hold for nearly 4 years.

 

[Johnny Au]

They don't have a background in business either. Someone with a business background would not trim service quality when your customer base is growing but the primary complaint is about poor service quality; you bump up the price and try to further improve service. Price is rarely mentioned when you ask drivers why they don't use transit; they mention time of travel, crowding, etc.

Someone with actual business sense would have bumped the fare by ~20% (boost until ridership stops growing) and shoved a ton of cash into making all buses run faster (BRT everywhere). Let improved service bring in more while making further improvements with operating savings.

Of course, transit isn't a business either, but don't believe for a second that Ford or Stintz have a head for business. First thing they canned was the cheap Transit City Bus Plan. The new bus garage has been on hold for nearly 4 years.

...and I wonder how Deco Labels managed to survive with such bad business decisions.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

They don't have a background in business either. Someone with a business background would not trim service quality when your customer base is growing but the primary complaint is about poor service quality; you bump up the price and try to further improve service. Price is rarely mentioned when you ask drivers why they don't use transit; they mention time of travel, crowding, etc.

Someone with actual business sense would have bumped the fare by ~20% (boost until ridership stops growing) and shoved a ton of cash into making all buses run faster (BRT everywhere). Let improved service bring in more while making further improvements with operating savings.

Of course, transit isn't a business either, but don't believe for a second that Ford or Stintz have a head for business. First thing they canned was the cheap Transit City Bus Plan. The new bus garage has been on hold for nearly 4 years.

Amen to that. Transit is a business of a sort, especially for an agency with such low subsidy levels as the TTC (which thus is spurred on to squeeze as many pennies as possible), and people like Ford and Stintz completely ruin that business with their own politicking. See "Subways, Subways, Subways" over system-wide improvements, BRT, Transit City, better Presto implementation, etc. etc. etc., basically the ideas that people who actually understand transit (like Steve Munro, or, at least I like to think, us on here) have been suggesting for years.

...and I wonder how Deco Labels managed to survive with such bad business decisions.

I finished reading Robyn Doolittle's Crazy Town a few weeks back. It seemed that the late Doug Ford Sr. had quite the work ethic, not-poor business sense, and a very strong personality, let's say, in business.

 

[rbt]

...and I wonder how Deco Labels managed to survive with such bad business decisions.

Rob Ford's sales position with Deco Labels, which he had for about 10% of the companies entire lifespan, hardly put him in a position to tank the company. I don't doubt Rob is great for short-term sales (over-promise, under-deliver) but he's never run the day-to-day or had a majority voting position within the board.

Doug Sr. gave them a profitable and growing company capable of hiring numerous consultants and experts; that really helps. Doug Jr. does have reasonable skills for running a SME, though he lacks the ability to delegate decision making (he shouldn't be exhausted after 4 years of council) which would cause serious problems in a large enterprise.

TTC would qualify as a large enterprise (large regional monopoly). Goals of large enterprises focus a lot more on ensuring product availability, supply chain, removing newcomers to the field (acquisition or increased barrier to entry like regulation), and legal liability. Their only requirement for cost/price management is that it's in the same ballpark as other large enterprises offering the same product. Profit margin is essentially a cost+ arrangement, decreasing production cost actually decreases profits; this is done to ensure newcomers have a substantial barrier to entry if they cannot match the production cost at low volume.

 

[the lemur]

Rob Ford's sales position with Deco Labels, which he had for about 10% of the companies entire lifespan, hardly put him in a position to tank the company. I don't doubt Rob is great for short-term sales (over-promise, under-deliver) but he's never run the day-to-day or had a majority voting position within the board.

I thought Rob's role within Deco was just bookkeeping (and just a few hours a week at that)?

 

[rbt]

I thought Rob's role within Deco was just bookkeeping (and just a few hours a week at that)?

He took a sales title at Deco after dropping out of University (1990?) and running for city councillor in 2000. Doug Sr. would have been running the day-to-day when Rob started but Doug Jr. would have taken over when Sr. ran for provincial office.

I have no idea how many hours Rob's job involved or what he actually did, but he had a full-time salary and a sales title. I don't doubt Rob would have made an excellent salesman.

 

[ShonTron]

He took a sales title at Deco after dropping out of University (1990?) and running for city councillor in 2000. Doug Sr. would have been running the day-to-day when Rob started but Doug Jr. would have taken over when Sr. ran for provincial office.

I have no idea how many hours Rob's job involved or what he actually did, but he had a full-time salary and a sales title. I don't doubt Rob would have made an excellent salesman.

This is where the comparisons to Tommy Boy are factually closest. (Except Farley's character actually finished university.)

 

[TOareaFan]

They don't have a background in business either. Someone with a business background would not trim service quality when your customer base is growing but the primary complaint is about poor service quality; you bump up the price and try to further improve service. Price is rarely mentioned when you ask drivers why they don't use transit; they mention time of travel, crowding, etc.

Someone with actual business sense would have bumped the fare by ~20% (boost until ridership stops growing) and shoved a ton of cash into making all buses run faster (BRT everywhere). Let improved service bring in more while making further improvements with operating savings.

Of course, transit isn't a business either, but don't believe for a second that Ford or Stintz have a head for business. First thing they canned was the cheap Transit City Bus Plan. The new bus garage has been on hold for nearly 4 years.

If anyone was actually allowed to run municipal transit as a business you would actually bump up fares until ridership decreased. (made up numbers here) 3 million riders a day at $3 a ride is $9 million.......2.5 million riders a day at $4 a ride is $10 million....probably save some money serving fewer people too and provide a more comfortable experience to those you do serve.

But, I think, we all know that transit is not seen as a business that way here....look at the reaction in the public/media when they discuss 5 and 10 cent increases never mind the sort of larger increases that an in demand product/service in the private sector would command.

The funny thing is, this model was precisely the basis of the 407 highway as planned out by the Rae led NDP government. If you recall, they guaranteed no traffic jams because if, as, and when the highway got busier they were just going to raise tolls to control demand and maximize revenues.......it is just not a model that we seem comfortable using on public/mass transit.

 

[enelemcee]

Today, while going to work, I saw not one but threeof the new articulated buses on the Dufferin line. It's about time they arrived! My upstairs neighbour and aunt rode in one of them on their way to Dufferin Mall, and they were quite impressed by them.

 

[andrew1980]

I spotted two in a row across from Dufferin Mall on Monday evening:

 

[TOareaFan]

^just a snapshot in time but isn't one of the advantages of bigger vehicles, spaced more, the ability to carry as many or more people without the bunching? Those 3 people at that stop are going to have lots of choice on seating!

 

[andrew1980]

^just a snapshot in time but isn't one of the advantages of bigger vehicles, spaced more, the ability to carry as many or more people without the bunching? Those 3 people at that stop are going to have lots of choice on seating!

I think they're running the same tight schedule on Dufferin until it's completely articulated buses, then spacing it out more. So we'll see bunching for a while yet.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I think they're running the same tight schedule on Dufferin until it's completely articulated buses, then spacing it out more. So we'll see bunching for a while yet.

How are they at handling the hills with the snowfall?

 

[doady]

^just a snapshot in time but isn't one of the advantages of bigger vehicles, spaced more, the ability to carry as many or more people without the bunching? Those 3 people at that stop are going to have lots of choice on seating!

Based on my experience in Mississauga, articulated buses actually more unreliable than 40 foot buses. You simply don't notice it as much because the frequency is lower. That's not really an advantage.

Articulated buses with all-door boarding will definitely be more reliable. Otherwise, don't expect much.

 

[nfitz]

That depends on whether they actually do run 2 for every 3 of the current ones, but I was thinking more of whether they'd adjust the schedule, what effective wait time will be, etc.

That's what they've said they are going to do, at least during peak periods. And that's exactly what the upcoming schedule for 7 Bathurst shows.

We would one not assume that they will do what they say they are going to do?