TTC: Lower Bay Station (closed to public)

[LowerBay]

i drove the b/d during the last detour, i've now transferred to a different mode but it was a nightmare and inefficient system last time around. my friends are dreading doing it again. there is nothing to gain by interlining and it should not even be considered. it magnifies delays on both lines and any event downtown on the YUS can paralyze both lines. put it to rest

Tell that to New York and all the other major subway systems that interline. I was 14 in 1966 so I remember the wye system, and it worked fairly well. If you go ask Steve Munro (he rode it too), he'll tell you the same thing.

 

[reaperexpress]

i drove the b/d during the last detour, i've now transferred to a different mode but it was a nightmare and inefficient system last time around. my friends are dreading doing it again. there is nothing to gain by interlining and it should not even be considered. it magnifies delays on both lines and any event downtown on the YUS can paralyze both lines. put it to rest

While the diversion will probably be relatively inefficient, it's better than running replacement buses.

The subway option has many advantages:
- Even with the bottleneck at Museum station, subways offer much higher capacity than buses.
- It saves money because fewer drivers and buses are required.
- It is more convenient for riders because one cross-platform interchange is better than two transfers to buses, one of which would be at a station without a bus terminal (Chester)
- It would be much faster even taking into account the delays caused by the wye.

So overall, I'm pretty sure people would rather wait a couple minutes extra for a subway than transfer to a jam-packed bus that would get stuck in traffic.

 

[nfitz]

Tell that to New York and all the other major subway systems that interline. I was 14 in 1966 so I remember the wye system, and it worked fairly well. If you go ask Steve Munro (he rode it too), he'll tell you the same thing.

It might have been a reasonable idea in 1966; but now that they've built the Spadina subway it just won't work.

It's quite clear from documents from the late 1960s that TTC wanted the Spadina subway; so it's no wonder that they chose not to operate that way. You can't operate Spadina at current rush-hour frequencies and operate the wye.

 

[LowerBay]

It might have been a reasonable idea in 1966; but now that they've built the Spadina subway it just won't work.

It's quite clear from documents from the late 1960s that TTC wanted the Spadina subway; so it's no wonder that they chose not to operate that way. You can't operate Spadina at current rush-hour frequencies and operate the wye.

This is true, but the Spadina subway was supposed to connect to Christie Stn. on the Bloor subway. Later on, it was supposed to be extended south to meet the Queen subway. In 1995, there was a plan to route several trains through it during the busiest 1/2 hour segments of the AM and PM rush. Trains would have passed through, but not stopped at Bay Lower. This idea might be worth revisiting.

 

[nfitz]

In 1995, there was a plan to route several trains through it during the busiest 1/2 hour segments of the AM and PM rush. Trains would have passed through, but not stopped at Bay Lower. This idea might be worth revisiting.

What would the routing be?

I assume that the work trains heading back and forth from Greenwood to the Yonge line worksite north of Eglinton every evening are passing through Lower Bay every day ...

 

[LowerBay]

What would the routing be?

I assume that the work trains heading back and forth from Greenwood to the Yonge line worksite north of Eglinton every evening are passing through Lower Bay every day ...

The idea was to send every 4th BD train from the east and west (during the busiest 1/2 hour in the AM and PM rush) through the wye and onward to Finch. Trains from the west would head to Upper St. George after leaving Spadina. Trains from the east would enter Bay Lower but not stop there. This was proposed in 1995 and never implemented. I believe part of the problem came from the ramps on the west end of the wye. They aren't long enough to hold an entire train between the Spadina and Bloor routes and so the fear was that service on Bloor might be slowed down a bit. Because there was no Spadina extension in 1966, this wasn't a problem then. The tail tracks on the upper level were there from Day 1 but there was no potential conflict during normal operations.

 

[Agram]

I assume that the work trains heading back and forth from Greenwood to the Yonge line worksite north of Eglinton every evening are passing through Lower Bay every day ...

Actually most of the work cars come from Davisville Yard. If any work cars do travel from Greenwood Yard its an easy route via Lower Bay.

 

[nfitz]

Actually most of the work cars come from Davisville Yard. If any work cars do travel from Greenwood Yard its an easy route via Lower Bay.

Every time I'm in the Danforth subway on a weekday evening after about midnight or 1 AM I see work vehicles heading west. Where are these heading every night, if not to Yonge? Particularly the cars full of workers.

 

[Agram]

They could be heading any where, its a big system but I'm guessing they are doing work on the BD line. We have work crews also at Wilson Yard as well. Next time you are near Davisville you will see an extra 2 trailers which are for the work crews working around Eglinton.

 

[Chuck]

Tell that to New York and all the other major subway systems that interline.

New York's interlining is far less confusing, and is operationally different. Interlined routes there follow a logical " Y " shape, and consist of nothing more than two suburban routes sharing the same line downtown. Toronto's interlining involved the total merger of two independent subway lines, and was confusing because any train serving any platform could have any final destination. There is simply no comparison.

The Harbourfront and Spadina streetcars exhibit true New York style interlining - both routes terminate at Union, however at some point along the line, the routes head off in different directions. This principal is fundamentally different than the manner in which the Lower Bay wye system worked.

 

[LowerBay]

New York's interlining is far less confusing, and is operationally different. Interlined routes there follow a logical " Y " shape, and consist of nothing more than two suburban routes sharing the same line downtown. Toronto's interlining involved the total merger of two independent subway lines, and was confusing because any train serving any platform could have any final destination. There is simply no comparison.

The Harbourfront and Spadina streetcars exhibit true New York style interlining - both routes terminate at Union, however at some point along the line, the routes head off in different directions. This principal is fundamentally different than the manner in which the Lower Bay wye system worked.

Go look at the A, D, and E in NYC. They meet just like our wye.

 

[Chuck]

Go look at the A, D, and E in NYC. They meet just like our wye.

The interlining between the 6th and 8th Avenue grouping of subway routes is still different from Toronto's interlining thanks to quad tracking. A delay on one set of tracks is guaranteed to have no impact on service on at least one other set of tracks. It is also not a true wye because several segments exist on operationally independent tracks.

 

[drum118]

Lower bay is the only place TTC is planning on having open for the Doors Open Event at the end of May this 2013 year.

My understanding the opening will be like the ones in the past with more info to follow on it shortly.

 

[DSC]

This is quite an interesting article on disused subway stations (or whole systems) http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...ean-ghost-stations-tube-abandoned-underground and, yes, it mentions our own Lower Bay.

 

[M II A II R II K]

And when Ellesmere becomes a ghost station, no one will notice any difference.