TTC: Jane (LRT) RapidTO

[aquateam]

Apologies if already raised (or if crazy), but any discussion of southening the Jane LRT down to the Waterfront Transit Reset RER area (South Kingsway)?

I can't really picture that happening, it would run through Windemere or South Kingsway? Either way, those leafy homes would not welcome the intrusion of an LRT. Maybe elevated along the Humber river? That would make for some scenic vistas.

This is the view of the area you would be running through:

But I don't think there is really that much demand for north/south travel in Swansea anyway that wouldn't be better served by buses. If you want an RER/Waterfront connection, the best way (IMHO) would be through a western DRL extension.

A transit hub at Sunnyside could connect RER, Roncesvalles/King street car (enhanced through transit mall), DRL along Queen street, "Waterfront West"(Lakeshore) LRT, and a future Queensway LRT. Extend that north along Parkside/Roncey for the north/south connection from RER to line 2.

Maybe Jane and Don Mills could be served by Line 5 spurs so between Jane and Don Mills could be the trunk route for both Line 5 routes.

I think this makes the most sense from a connectivity point of view. To get anywhere downtown (University line, Yonge line, DRL East, DRL West) would only require one transfer from Don Mills or Jane. With the Jane/Don Mills LRTs ending at Bloor, you would need to do jogs along the Bloor line.

 

[M II A II R II K]

And it would provide an excuse to have DRL North veer north westward to places like Agincourt and Malvern which would provide a one seat subway ride from northern Scarborough to downtown and also in an expresslike fashion.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

It's not exactly a secret. Back in 2010 Steve Munro wrote this:


The two big "future" Transit City lines (Jane and Don Mills) were more of a fantasy and political posturing than an actual plan. Don Mills would've inevitably run into the same problem south of the Don Valley.

Don Mills LRT is not exactly a 'fantasy' if its being contemplated to be a subway now. Just saying. But I digress.

Jane is a great north-south link in the west end, and prevents extremely long east-west bus rides to/from Line 1, or north-south to/from Line 2. This is something I had to endure when I used to live in Weston, it is grueling. It also serves a number of number of priority neighbourhoods. Is serving the least well off 'political posturing'? Not an accusation, I'm sure that's not what you meant.

The connection to Line 2 is more about building a complete network, and connecting to another east-west rapid transit line. It would be a huge pain to take the Jane LRT to Eglinton, have to transfer to a bus to get to Bloor, and then subway a couple more stops east or west. It may be expensive and require tunneling, but c'mon folks, were spending billions for a one stop extension in Scarborough! What's stopping us from tunneling the Jane LRT? I'm going to say it: part of the reason is poor people. Too few on city council are standing up for them.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The south end of the current 35 JANE & 195 JANE ROCKET buses terminates at JANE STATION on Line 2, paper transfers maybe required if not using a pass or PRESTO.

The north end of the current 35 JANE & 195 JANE ROCKET buses now terminates at PIONEER VILLAGE STATION on Line 1, using the fare paid area to transfer.

I can see some patrons in the north section of the Jane buses switch directions to use the PIONEER VILLAGE STATION instead of the JANE STATION. Two reasons, faster commute and one less transfer (no need for transferring from Line 2 to a crowded Line 1 train). They just might be able to actually get a seat on a Line 1 train now.

 

[muller877]

Apologies if already raised (or if crazy), but any discussion of southening the Jane LRT down to the Waterfront Transit Reset RER area (South Kingsway)?

There was previously a transit solution down South Kingsway. A railway that failed 100 years ago.

But a great solution to visit Cheese Boutique (i.e. there is not much down there)

The more pressing need for transit to the south of this area is to serve the Humber Bay community. The 66 bus is

I am of the view that they should:
- build the secondary exit access to Old Mill Subway in the park (east end of the platform)
- Have 66 Prince Edward run express through the park (with electric gates)
- Use the Humber loop underpass to access the Humber Bay area. Avoids Park Lawn traffic headaches (you will only have the Sobeys light as a problem).

The trail has a one-lane stretch but can signaled for the bus to avoid adding too much pavement in the park
Prince Edward can be served by a local bus.

This will give this huge community direct access to the subway. And eventually when the GO stop is relocated to Park Lawn this route can serve as a connection between the Bloor line and Lakeshore West GO.

 

[BurlOak]

Maybe Jane and Don Mills could be served by Line 5 spurs so between Jane and Don Mills could be the trunk route for both Line 5 routes.

But someone decided not to grade-separate all the way to Don Mills.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

It's not exactly a secret. Back in 2010 Steve Munro wrote this:


The two big "future" Transit City lines (Jane and Don Mills) were more of a fantasy and political posturing than an actual plan. Don Mills would've inevitably run into the same problem south of the Don Valley.

Really happy Don Mills was never built. What a stupid and short-sighted project.

Jane, on the other hand, certainly has merit.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Really happy Don Mills was never built. What a stupid and short-sighted project.

Jane, on the other hand, certainly has merit.

Don Mills has evolved into the Relief Line, Phase 2. That's the arrow pointing north.

 

[WislaHD]

Really happy Don Mills was never built. What a stupid and short-sighted project.

Jane, on the other hand, certainly has merit.

If Don Mills was proposed as an LRT though, the suburbs would have made it their election priority #1 to make it a subway.

 

[Rainforest]

Don Mills LRT is not exactly a 'fantasy' if its being contemplated to be a subway now. Just saying. But I digress.

Jane is a great north-south link in the west end, and prevents extremely long east-west bus rides to/from Line 1, or north-south to/from Line 2. This is something I had to endure when I used to live in Weston, it is grueling. It also serves a number of number of priority neighbourhoods. Is serving the least well off 'political posturing'? Not an accusation, I'm sure that's not what you meant.

View attachment 130785

The connection to Line 2 is more about building a complete network, and connecting to another east-west rapid transit line. It would be a huge pain to take the Jane LRT to Eglinton, have to transfer to a bus to get to Bloor, and then subway a couple more stops east or west. It may be expensive and require tunneling, but c'mon folks, were spending billions for a one stop extension in Scarborough! What's stopping us from tunneling the Jane LRT? I'm going to say it: part of the reason is poor people. Too few on city council are standing up for them.

A Jane line all the way to Bloor has a number of merits.

On the other hand, I can see a number of reasons to build Jane as a branch of Eglinton:

1) The cost of tunneling between Eglinton and Bloor may reach > 50% of the SSE cost. That depends of course on the length of tunneled section; but if it comes to 3.5 km with stops in between (versus SSE's 6.5 km and no stops), it definitely will be > 50%.

At the same time, the ridership of that segment of Jane will be in the range of 30-35 % of SSE's ridership. Thus, the cost per daily rider might be higher than for SSE.

2) Nearly all of the the poor residents are located north of Eglinton (in contrast, Bloor Village is quite wealthy), and would be served by the light rail line in either configuration.

3) Being a branch of Eglinton, the Jane line will connect with the subway at Eglinton & Allen. For destinations located east of Jane, the riders can go to Eglinton West, take subway Line 1 to St George, and then Line 2.

Going west of Jane would be a bit tricky. However, another (western) branch of Jane LRT may provide a solution. That branch would turn west on Eglinton, then south on Kipling to Kipling Stn (assuming Kipling gets light rail as well).

4) Funds saved by not extending Jane LRT from Eglinton to Bloor might cover the entire cost of Kipling LRT (running fully at-grade in dedicated lanes).

 

[TransitBart]

Yeah but form a network perspective you want to provide access to Bloor-Danforth subway. Eglinton and Jane is not a destination itself.

It’s inconceivable that anyone living at Humber Bay Shores would want to work at Jane and Finch. Don’t bother with that last run down to Jane Station. Clearly no one will ever change their decisions or behaviour because something is easier or more convenient. Thank goodness the transit planners know so much.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

It’s inconceivable that anyone living at Humber Bay Shores would want to work at Jane and Finch. Don’t bother with that last run down to Jane Station. Clearly no one will ever change their decisions or behaviour because something is easier or more convenient. Thank goodness the transit planners know so much.

No it’s not inconceivable. The question is whether or not enough people are doing it to spend a billion dollars to facilitate those trips.

 

[TransitBart]

No it’s not inconceivable. The question is whether or not enough people are doing it to spend a billion dollars to facilitate those trips.

So like...forget the network...we have better things to do with the money...

 

[TheTigerMaster]

So like...forget the network...we have better things to do with the money...

Basically.

What’s the point of adding a line to the network of few people are going to use it? To make maps look pretty?

 

[TransitBart]

I am the ultimate evidence guy. I make decisions on facts. It drive me nuts when my colleagues tell me 'I think' and 'I feel'. I don't care. What I want to know is what the facts say.

But in this case, this is a time for something like the 1989 baseball theme movie 'Field of Dreams'. If you build it, they will come. Which is why I am so appalled by the 'what will the ridership be on opening day? When the (good & rapid) transit exists, people will move and take employment and go to school with their mobility options in mind.

I say build it. There is no transit that is on any plan - city - Metrolinx or even fantasy maps here that will not be well used.

Also @TheTigerMaster - it would eliminate another critical path along line 2 or 5. I am a big critical path guy, because life happens and it usually comes back to bite me in the ass when i don't consider a critical path.