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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

EastYorkTTCFan

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What I was trying to say was once the order of flexities is complete i.e. we don't need or want anymore, go with another company.
That's the thing the TTC does want more streetcars and if Bombardier can get them faster because they already have lines set up to do it why would you go with another company. If they go with another company instead of getting them staring in 2020 we would have to wait until 2023 o longer well they go through a test and design process with another company. Swapping compies for 100 more streetcars doesn't make any sense with the TTC order. Sure other cities do that but they don't have existing networks to deal with or they don't have tight corners and loops or steep hills to negotiate either

Until such time as we are bursting at the seams with flexities or they are so outdated we need new cars it makes no sense to go with another company.
Yeah in like 20 or 30 years from now.
 

Richard White

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That's the thing the TTC does want more streetcars and if Bombardier can get them faster because they already have lines set up to do it why would you go with another company. If they go with another company instead of getting them staring in 2020 we would have to wait until 2023 o longer well they go through a test and design process with another company. Swapping compies for 100 more streetcars doesn't make any sense with the TTC order. Sure other cities do that but they don't have existing networks to deal with or they don't have tight corners and loops or steep hills to negotiate either


Yeah in like 20 or 30 years from now.

What we need is an order of 700 cars akin to the PCC fleet we had.
 

EastYorkTTCFan

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I'm working off insane amounts of coffee but suffice to say prior to shipping them off to Alexandria there was a sizable fleet of PCCs resulting from the Bloor cars and Yonge Cars.
We don't need a fleet that big anymore unless they plan on rebuilding those two routes again instead of the relief line.
 

drum118

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What we need is an order of 700 cars akin to the PCC fleet we had.
What!!!

Yes you would if not more using the same size of cars and the new fleet is longer than the PCC. There is no reason you can't move to 40 meter cars on various routes overtime to deal with ridership.

Sorry, the days are gone for short cars and why you are seeing most systems in Europe going to 35-45-60 meter cars these days. You increase ridership space per car at no cost of adding another driver. Labour is the high cost of running a system at about 80% of operation cost, if not more.

Look at systems in the US todays that are running 2-3 car train at about 2-300' long.

Note: I did say around 2005 I did see TTC having about 700 cars in the fleet, but that for lines not built yet and may not get built. How many cars will there be in Toronto between TTC and Metrolinx by 2022???
 
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Admiral Beez

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It makes sense to finish off the order with Bombardier. If you go to another company there needs to be a design, testing and commissioning phase. If Bombardier finishes off the order you pump out the same cars with all the bugs worked out. Using Bombardier will result in the cars being produced alot faster.

I say finish off the run of flexities and order new stock elsewhere.
It's a NEW order that's being discussed, AIUI.

Let BBR finish the order they have certainly. But, as you suggest above, any new orders should very wary of the lads from BBR.
 

smallspy

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It's a NEW order that's being discussed, AIUI.

Let BBR finish the order they have certainly. But, as you suggest above, any new orders should very wary of the lads from BBR.

Read the report closely - the real eye-opening stuff is in the graphs. The TTC staff is suggesting that not only do they need the 60 additional cars ASAP, but that there is also another 100 cars above and beyond that will be needed to handle the anticipated ridership by as soon as 2023.

If they put out a new tender tomorrow, there is no way that we would get new cars in time. They don't explicitly say so, but they strongly hint that the prudent choice would be to take the option order for 60 cars from Bombardier now, and immediately start the process for tendering another order for 100 (or more) cars for delivery in 5 or 6 years time.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 

Admiral Beez

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Read the report closely - the real eye-opening stuff is in the graphs. The TTC staff is suggesting that not only do they need the 60 additional cars ASAP, but that there is also another 100 cars above and beyond that will be needed to handle the anticipated ridership by as soon as 2023.

If they put out a new tender tomorrow, there is no way that we would get new cars in time. They don't explicitly say so, but they strongly hint that the prudent choice would be to take the option order for 60 cars from Bombardier now, and immediately start the process for tendering another order for 100 (or more) cars for delivery in 5 or 6 years time.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
Let's see what Premier Ford has to say about Streetcars, starting tomorrow.
 

dowlingm

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Unlike the first round of streetcars, there are now competitors building streetcars in North America. Heck, Alstrom is likely to build a plant here in the GTA, not Sahagún/Thunder Bay.

Alstom to build Metrolinx LRT cars in Toronto, will create 120 jobs
https://globalnews.ca/news/3929485/alstom-metrolinx-light-rail-vehicle/
Alstom are not listed in the TTC list of responding manufacturers. Maybe they could be listed under Siemens now, given the merger, but it could also be that the Alstom sales team wants to stick to "standard" light rail while not getting in the way of their Siemens colleagues offering an S70.
 

pstogios

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I’m the last person to defend Bombardier after their disgraceful and offensive start to fulfilling the Flexity contract, but it looks like they are now on track to deliver all 204 by end of next year.

Starting from this tweet from Matt Elliot,
https://twitter.com/graphicmatt/status/1004743085463465985?s=21
I did a simple regression that shows BBD is on an exponential growth path of delivery. Assuming this continues, they will deliver the 204th car one month early.
https://twitter.com/torontopeter/status/1004785837748441089?s=21
727E1887-7939-4541-B76E-F916C18A622F.jpeg
 

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rbt

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He said that he would run our province like a business...

I don't understand that concept. So for customers (citizens) he's going to charge the largest price for providing the minimum service? It's a regional monopoly with very very high cost in changing provinces for "customers"; think Bell in the '80s. Who gets the profits?

It should be like a co-operative; where the customer is the owner and the focus is generally on providing the basic services at high quality at minimum cost.
 

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