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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

Voltz

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the timeline in that document has 'contract award' in Q4 2020, and first delivery out in Q2 2024.

But, once all of the 204 initial-order cars are delivered, presumably sometime in Q4 2019 or Q1 2020, couldn't we immediately start having cars from the option-order delivered? 2019 production schedule is 83 cars to be delivered - if they can achieve that rate, or even 60-70% we could conceivably have another 100 cars here by Q3 2021?

They could have done that if they exercised the option in the Bombardier order, but there was too much political posturing against them to do that,
 

bbdfollower

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They could have done that if they exercised the option in the Bombardier order, but there was too much political posturing against them to do that,

So the option is expired? If the option is expired, why do they mention the strike price of cars in this report: that should be completely irrelevant to what we can expect to pay on the open market right now.
 

rbt

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The report essentially says "sure we can pick someone other than Bombardier but their costs are going to be way higher and take years longer".

Yep, but I'm seeing a requirements for about 160 additional vehicles total.

1) Staff want to take the Bombardier option for 60 with expectations that they can be fully delivered by 2021.

2) Staff want to buy an 100 additional units (the long way) with delivery from 2024 through ~2036.

It would be nice if both happened. I don't expect to see any provincial funding for it though.
 

cplchanb

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This is very unscientific and I am sure that there are other designs, and that a TTC unit may be different, but I've compiled some notable examples from each of the 10 supplier's models for your viewing pleasure. And yes, I wonder who made the shortlist, and where the new barn to accommodate the units will be located.

wow CRRC is so big they could afford to send 3 different divisions to bid for the same project....
 

Voltz

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So the option is expired? If the option is expired, why do they mention the strike price of cars in this report: that should be completely irrelevant to what we can expect to pay on the open market right now.

It was set to expire after the delivery of 60 cars, if they can still get it I don't know, maybe as part of compensation for the late delivery's.
 

crs1026

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Nothing prevents Bombardier from bidding as if the option were still in place, to secure the order.

The report is pretty positive regarding Bombardier having recovered from its failure. No adverse comments regarding MTBF, either. TTC staff sound content with the product.

In fact, the comments about Bombardier continuing to improve quality makes one wonder about how close the early product was to the line.

The comments about latent demand and the need for a larger fleet are music to my ears, regardless of who gets the order.

- Paul
 

rbt

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It was set to expire after the delivery of 60 cars, if they can still get it I don't know, maybe as part of compensation for the late delivery's.

The option deadline was voluntarily deferred by Bombardier several times due to delivery and reliability issues.

I'm uncertain of the current state of it but expect Bombardier would happily accept the additional order if for no other reason than it shows confidence in their current ability to deliver after so many issues.
 

W. K. Lis

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From that report:

Next steps
Over the coming months, staff will undertake the following:
1. Request funding approval through 2019 budget process;
2. Update contract documents based on stakeholder input, contract changes, and lessons learned;
3. Engage consultant to validate RFI responses (e.g. technical and commercial performance, on-time delivery performance, etc.);
4. Develop scope and budget for additional maintenance capacity at Hillcrest; and
5. Report back to the TTC Board in Q1 2019 with recommendations
This could mean the conversion of Hillcrest from heavy maintenance (heavy overhauls, repairs and repainting) to store off-duty streetcars for 511 BATHURST and 512 ST. CLAIR.
 

Amare

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wow CRRC is so big they could afford to send 3 different divisions to bid for the same project....
Think of CRRC as a group of separate companies merged into one, but still operating as distinct separate companies. By name it is one large company to make them more competitive on the global stage. What the Chinese government did with them, is pretty similar to what the Russians did with their aircraft manufacturers (ie: merging them to form the United Aircraft Corporation). Their structure is different than what we see with the traditional mergers that we see happen in the Western world.
 

drum118

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4481 should have been off loaded Monday, since it was at the ramp on the weekend.

Its possible 4479 could enter service tomorrow or Thursday. Thought 4477 would enter service tomorrow since it been in the service Bay since Sat, but did some test runs on the Queensway as well 509 after lunch on Monday.
 

Kitsune

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Is Bombardier spitting them out so fast because they are producing them that fast - or because they had a bunch that were missing one part due to a shortage ?
 

drum118

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CP delivered another car to Hillcrest overnight. And there is one more coming, it left Thunder Bay late yesterday.

- Paul
Leaves 4 more to be ship by June 22 and that should happen at this rate at this time. More the marry and will help TTC to retire the ALRV's by year end.
 

SaugeenJunction

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Leaves 4 more to be ship by June 22 and that should happen at this rate at this time. More the marry and will help TTC to retire the ALRV's by year end.

I want to forum's thoughts on this. Is it worth starting up an effort to make sure that the TTC preserves at least 1 ALRV for heritage service, to ensure they aren't all scrapped? Maybe get a councillor to put forward a motion? Brad Ross had indicated in twitter awhile back that they may all get scrapped. Would be a damn shame. We all know that they could get a pantograph if needed.
 

drum118

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I want to forum's thoughts on this. Is it worth starting up an effort to make sure that the TTC preserves at least 1 ALRV for heritage service, to ensure they aren't all scrapped? Maybe get a councillor to put forward a motion? Brad Ross had indicated in twitter awhile back that they may all get scrapped. Would be a damn shame. We all know that they could get a pantograph if needed.
There was talk last year that one of each type of cars would be keep, but need a stock pile of parts for them to maintain them.

I was pushing for 2 ALRV as 4200 & 4452 with CLRV 4000 now 4001, 4010 and 4196. 4001 now since 4000 is now scrap as first car made oversea , 4010 & 4196 as first and last car made here.

Space is an issue as to where to store all the cars for all the fleet until a new yard is built and being store inside.
 

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