TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[drum118]

I want to forum's thoughts on this. Is it worth starting up an effort to make sure that the TTC preserves at least 1 ALRV for heritage service, to ensure they aren't all scrapped? Maybe get a councillor to put forward a motion? Brad Ross had indicated in twitter awhile back that they may all get scrapped. Would be a damn shame. We all know that they could get a pantograph if needed.

There was talk last year that one of each type of cars would be keep, but need a stock pile of parts for them to maintain them.

I was pushing for 2 ALRV as 4200 & 4452 with CLRV 4000 now 4001, 4010 and 4196. 4001 now since 4000 is now scrap as first car made oversea , 4010 & 4196 as first and last car made here.

Space is an issue as to where to store all the cars for all the fleet until a new yard is built and being store inside.

 

[Richard White]

Is Bombardier spitting them out so fast because they are producing them that fast - or because they had a bunch that were missing one part due to a shortage ?

Here is to hoping we hit 4601 by the end of the year.

 

[Richard White]

There was talk last year that one of each type of cars would be keep, but need a stock pile of parts for them to maintain them.

I was pushing for 2 ALRV as 4200 & 4452 with CLRV 4000 now 4001, 4010 and 4196. 4001 now since 4000 is now scrap as first car made oversea , 4010 & 4196 as first and last car made here.

Space is an issue as to where to store all the cars for all the fleet until a new yard is built and being store inside.

My understanding is that the electronics are out of date and no longer easily manufactured. With that in mind, preservation would have to be as a static model not an operational one. You could keep it operational for a while but eventually the parts will need to be replaced.

It would be nice to have preserved but unlike the PCCs or the Witts it is not mechanical operations it is all space age electrical operations with diodes, tubes and transistors. It was practical at the time but it is technology that is going the way of the dodo in an era of fibre optics.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Doesn't matter what is in the inside behind the panels, just as the outside LOOKS like a ALRV or CLRV.

They make fake Cuckoo clocks, but the inside is electronic.

See link.

 

[drum118]

Bombardier has inside track for TTC’s next streetcar order

 

[Cobra]

Bombardier has inside track for TTC’s next streetcar order

Not surprised at all... Just hope they throw in some new perks at no additional costs for all the trouble they caused

 

[SaugeenJunction]

As mad as I am at Bombardier for being slow, I think ordering the next batch from them makes sense. Keep the production rolling.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Is the second production line for the Flexity Outlooks online yet? If this second (third?) order goes through, they better get 2 more productions lines built and online.

 

[drum118]

Is the second production line for the Flexity Outlooks online yet? If this second (third?) order goes through, they better get 2 more productions lines built and online.

The 3rd production lines is to start in Oct this year.

They need the 3rd line if the want to fulfill the current order next year, otherwise it will be 2020. Then there will be an add on for 10 extra cars as payment for all the back charges and crap.

One hopes TTC has learn they need to add a stronger clause and higher cost for late delivery on all future orders after this mess, regardless who it is.

Once BBD fulfill Edmonton and Metrolinx, as well TTC, they will have nothing on the books to fulfill those production lines. They will not pickup another order for streetcars in NA, other than Quebec over this mess. Maybe TTC next order and one hopes not.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Maybe TTC next order and one hopes not.

I think a lot more of the desion on who tyhey go with will be do they want to go through a design and testing process again with a new company or would they rather stick with somone that has the drewings and lines alredy done up for a curent fleet that they aren't having any major peroblems with the veichles. Switching to a new manufature may mean we don't see new vechles for another few years wher as if we saty with Bomabrier they can just keep up the esiting lines that thye have alredy built.

 

[drum118]

I think a lot more of the desion on who tyhey go with will be do they want to go through a design and testing process again with a new company or would they rather stick with somone that has the drewings and lines alredy done up for a curent fleet that they aren't having any major peroblems with the veichles. Switching to a new manufature may mean we don't see new vechles for another few years wher as if we saty with Bomabrier they can just keep up the esiting lines that thye have alredy built.

Well, Minneapolis has BBD and Siemens car and have been Siemens since BBD screw up their order like TTC. Very common to see more than one suppliers to system world wide.

How many suppliers has Boston seen for their fleet???

What is TTC to do if BBD exit the market or merge with another company during the tender stage or building stage??

Based on what I have seen first hand and depending who the other 4 bidders are, a new supplier will be a step up from what we got today.

Depending on when the contract is awarded, TTC could see a prototype car late 2022 or early 2023, with production cars start arriving in 2024. Time is tie to when TTC can get funding for these cars. If BBD does win the order, 2023 would see the production started.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Well, Minneapolis has BBD and Siemens car and have been Siemens since BBD screw up their order like TTC. Very common to see more than one suppliers to system world wide.

Other systems have the luxury of going with other manufacturers because not as much customization is necessary for them or the system is being built from the ground up with them in mind. For example, Sydney's new LRT line will have sections in downtown Sydney where the power will be drawn from the ground instead of from overhead wires, most likely because Seamans want to showcase that technology to other cities.

What is TTC to do if BBD exit the market or merge with another company during the tender stage or building stage??

negotiate with whoever takes them over as they will still have the plans on file just like how Bombardier has everything on file from UTDC which is why they are doing most of the work to keep the SRT trains running.

Based on what I have seen first hand and depending who the other 4 bidders are, a new supplier will be a step up from what we got today

I only see another building being given the job if the TTC is confident that they can supply a vehicle that will cover all of their demands. Don't forget the TTC network is an existing network that was designed for much smaller streetcars and not everyone can build one that can handle everything.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

BBD seems to have worked out the production kinks, so I see no reason not to order the additional vehicles from them. Going with another supplier would add years of delay. Torontonians desperately need these additional vehicles today.

 

[dowlingm]

The way the polls are going, might be better off just putting out a tender and waiting because Doug Ford isn’t likely to throw a billion on the table for streetcars.

 

[Admiral Beez]

BBD seems to have worked out the production kinks, so I see no reason not to order the additional vehicles from them. Going with another supplier would add years of delay. Torontonians desperately need these additional vehicles today.

JMFC, if we give another streetcar project to Bombardier our city will look like the biggest fools. Fool me once, shame on you, but fool me twice.... Surely we must see that the REASON Bombardier is the cheaper option is that they low ball their bids, knowing they can deliver late and with shoddy initial quality and Toronto keeps coming back for more.

Unlike the first round of streetcars, there are now competitors building streetcars in North America. Heck, Alstrom is likely to build a plant here in the GTA, not Sahagún/Thunder Bay.

Alstom to build Metrolinx LRT cars in Toronto, will create 120 jobs
https://globalnews.ca/news/3929485/alstom-metrolinx-light-rail-vehicle/