TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[DavidH]

What a shame Bombardier won yet another contract. For once, I would have thought TTC would use it's brain and award the contract to another company. Alas, Bombardier owns us.

Just curious - how would it be using "its brain" to spend 50% more for the same number of cars by awarding to Siemens?

I would have liked to see Siemens win as well, but with this price difference, the TTC has no choice. Any recommendation for Siemens would have been shot down at the provincial level, which will be responsible for paying the bills.

 

[lead82]

Oops, I didn't notice the price differential mentioned. That is quite substantial. I wonder if Bombardier purposely under-cut it's bid to win it at all costs, or maybe there was a leak in the process that allowed Bombardier to win once more.

The price differential between the two makes me very suspicious. That's almost a $500M price difference. Oh well.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Would Siemens' quoted price have included the cost of setting up a new plant in the GTA?

 

[DavidH]

Would Siemens' quoted price have included the cost of setting up a new plant in the GTA?

Presumably indirectly as an internal cost.

 

[299 bloor call control.]

Question though, with only 204 trams ordered to replace 248, will we essentially see a reduction in frequencies on the tram routes due to this? Or will the TTC keep some of the ALRV's around since they are slightly newer and can be around for a say another 5 years or so.

The 204 will replace the 196 CLRVs. The ALRVs,as you state, have an extra few years on them. Not to mention there's always the option to order more once they start coming.

 

[nfitz]

I wonder if Bombardier purposely under-cut it's bid to win it at all costs, or maybe there was a leak in the process that allowed Bombardier to win once more.

The price differential between the two makes me very suspicious. That's almost a $500M price difference. Oh well.

A half-billion dollar price difference makes you suspicious that there was a leak? If Bombardier knew that Siemens was going to bid over $1.5 billion, I'm sure they wouldn't have bid over $0.53 billion lower! If anything this demonstrates that Bombardier didn't have knowledge of Siemens bid. They must be kicking themselves they didn't bid higher!

 

[lead82]

Right, that's what I thought. The media keeps claiming that 204 new cars are to replace all 248 that the TTC has now.

Thanks for confirming that it's only for the 196 CLRV's.

Looking forward to 2011 when the new trams and new subway trains will be in service.

 

[DavidH]

Torontoist has a rendering of the inside layout:

http://torontoist.com/2009/04/bombardier_wins.php

 

[nfitz]

The inside rendering looks completely different on Bombardier's new website http://www.thestreetcarredefined.ca/ Everything is different, seat layout, materials, compartment shape, straps instead of lots of convenient rails to hold onto.

The outside rendering is very different too, with different door positions, different windows, and a pantograph.

 

[Whoaccio]

I'm a bit shocked by how much bbd undercut siemens. I thought these things were pretty similar in pricing. Is the flexity a Kia or something? Why is there such a big gap?

 

[Tuscani01]

The inside rendering looks completely different on Bombardier's new website http://www.thestreetcarredefined.ca/ Everything is different, seat layout, materials, compartment shape, straps instead of lots of convenient rails to hold onto.

The outside rendering is very different too, with different door positions, different windows, and a pantograph.

Thats because the Flexity can be customized by transit systems. Im assuming the pictures from the Torontoist site are an early glimpse of how Toronto's version of the Flexity will look.

 

[toraerach]

Thats because the Flexity can be customized by transit systems. Im assuming the pictures from the Torontoist site are an early glimpse of how Toronto's version of the Flexity will look.

Hopefully they won't look so grey.

 

[nfitz]

Perhaps they should be red ... like a rocket. Hmm ... probably a better use of the name, than on a grey subway train.

 

[DavidH]

Thats because the Flexity can be customized by transit systems. Im assuming the pictures from the Torontoist site are an early glimpse of how Toronto's version of the Flexity will look.

The "new" Bombardier web site mentioned above is actually from early in the bid process, so it can't be taken to mean anything anymore. The giveaway should be that the site shows two different front end treatments. It's just as you say - some examples of how it could be customized. With the renderings released today, we're seeing what Bombardier is proposing to actually provide to Toronto.

As for the colouring, that's Bombardier putting a TTC-ish livery on it. I don't think that in any way constrains the TTC from specifying a specific livery.

I would hope/assume that the TTC will take this time to look at a new livery for streetcars and eventually buses.

I see a couple of light housings above the front destination sign in the rendering. Hopefully this means that the TTC tradition of green advance lights will continue.

 

[Ahab]

I share the concern about the grey colour. I'm hoping that it will be nice and bright with very little red. I really dislike all the red on the current streetcars.