TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[allabootmatt]

Proof of Payment for Transit City and all streetcar lines is currently under study, with a report to the Commission expected later this year on how to implement it. It shouldn't be a problem for Transit City, since the system can be designed into the platforms. For the existing system, it will take some innovation, considering the challenges to retrofit all existing stops or to put TVMs onboard all vehicles. The problem with TVMing vehicles is that fare evaders could theoretically never buy a ticket unless they see a fare checker board, while the problem with retrofitting stops is the sheer number of them - though a simple system would be to integrate them with the existing parking ticket machines.

Lets see what they (McCormick Rankin) come up with.

Plainclothes checkers, CCTV cameras, huge fines for evaders. Standard on virtually every form of public transport in Germany, works fine.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Fleet Numbers?

Our current fleet of streetcars are divided into two types: CLRV (Canadian Light Rail Vehicle) and ALRV (Articulated Light Rail Vehicle).

CLVR have the following fleet numbers:

• L1 Class - 4000-4005 (Swiss built)
• L2 Class - 4010-4199 (Canadian built)

ALRV have the following fleet numbers:

• 4200-4251

Prior to the CLRV and ALRV, we had a PCC fleet with the following numbers:

• 4000-4139 - A-1 air electric single units;
• 4150-4199 - A-2 air electric single units;
• 4200-4259 - A-3 air electric single units;
• 4260-4274 - A-4 air electric single units;
• 4275-4299 - A-5 air electric single units;
• 4300-4399 - A-6 all electric single units;
• 4400-4499 - A-7 all electric units - featuring MU couplers for train operation;
• 4500-4549 - A-8 all electric single units - all A-15 rebuilds came from this class;
• 4550-4574 - A-9 Ex-Cincinnati (1150-1174) all electric single units;
• 4575-4601 - A-10 Ex-Cincinnati (1100-1126) air electric single units;
• 4600-4618 - A-15 all electric rebuilt single-units (all ex Toronto A-8 units); Two of the cars -- 4604 and 4605 -- are restored to their 1951 "as delivered" apperance and retain the original numbers, 4500 and 4545; they are officially in class A-15H)
• 4625-4674 - A-11 Ex-Cleveland (4200-4249) all electric units featuring MU couplers for train operation;.
• 4675-4699 - A-12 Ex-Louisville (525,501-524); later ex-Cleveland (4250-4274) all-electric units featuring MU couplers for train operation;
• 4700-4747 - A-13 Ex-Birmingham (800-847) all electric single units;
• 4750-4779 - A-14 Ex-Kansas City (various) all electric single units

Prior to the PCC, we had a Peter Witt fleet, with the following numbers:

• 2300-2498 - Large Witt (CC&F) (Even Numbers Only), Hauled Trailers
• 2500-2578 - Large Witt (CC&F) (Even Numbers Only), Hauled Trailers
• 2580-2678 - Large Witt (Canadian Brills) (Even Numbers Only), Hauled Trailers
• 2700-2798 - Small Witt (CC&F) (Even Numbers Only)
• 2800-2898 - Small Witt (Ottawa Car Company) (Even Numbers Only)
• 2900-3018 - Large Witt (CC&F) (Even Numbers Only), Hauled Trailers

Fleet List (Trailers)

• 2301-2419 - 2-door (CC&F) (Odd Numbers Only)
• 2701-3029 - 3-door (CC&F) (Odd Numbers Only)

With the arrival of the new 204+ single-ended, low-floor light rail vehicles, I was wondering what fleet numbers they would be assigned. In addition, the double-ended, low-floor light rail vehicles would need room on the fleet number list.

Do we re-use the 4000’s (like the CLRV’s & ALRV’s & PCC’s), or could we use the 2000’s (like the Peter Witts), or a combination of both? Or use some other numbering scheme?

Fleet number list from Transit Toronto.

 

[kEiThZ]

Just curious. Are the 204 new streetcars sufficient to replace the 250 (including 52 articulated)? I realize that some efficiencies will be gained by having reduced maintenance and maybe some increased capacity. But is that enough to offset an 18-19% reduction in fleet size?

 

[drum118]

Just curious. Are the 204 new streetcars sufficient to replace the 250 (including 52 articulated)? I realize that some efficiencies will be gained by having reduced maintenance and maybe some increased capacity. But is that enough to offset an 18-19% reduction in fleet size?

""NO""

Based on TTC numbers back in 2005, TTC will be short 35 CLRV's by 2010 and 75 CLRV's by 2018. These number included the expansion of the current system like the Portland, Western Waterfront and St Clair as well increase of ridership.

Not added more cars to this order, TTC is moving from one cattle car to another.

The first 10 years will reduce spare ratio, but will have to increase before then.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Just curious. Are the 204 new streetcars sufficient to replace the 250 (including 52 articulated)? I realize that some efficiencies will be gained by having reduced maintenance and maybe some increased capacity. But is that enough to offset an 18-19% reduction in fleet size?

From a previous post:

A CLRV is 15.4 m long with a crush load of 132.
An ALRV is 23.2 m long with a crush load of 205.

A single-ended LFLRV could be 30 m long with a crush load of 260.

and no steps.

 

[nfitz]

Do we re-use the 4000’s (like the CLRV’s & ALRV’s & PCC’s), or could we use the 2000’s (like the Peter Witts), or a combination of both? Or use some other numbering scheme?

I'd start at 4300 and go from there. There 2000s are still used by the GM buses, which may all be gone by then, but they'll presumably need them for more buses.

 

[Ansem]

It was in the 24 newspaper this morning...

TTC will choose between

Siemens Combino Plus

or


Bombardier Flexity

THIS FRIDAY!!!!


Both models are great but I wish Siemens gets it just because they would create jobs in Toronto with a new plant...which would bring tax revenue to the city. Win-win scenario.

 

[DavidH]

THIS FRIDAY!!!!

Just in case the above is not clear: 24 Hours claims that the TTC will make the announcement on Friday, which means they will not wait for Monday's meeting of the commission.

 

[Ansem]

Just in case the above is not clear: 24 Hours claims that the TTC will make the announcement on Friday, which means they will not wait for Monday's meeting of the commission.

The article says:

For Train buffs and TTC officials, Friday should be a very exciting day.

The transit commission is poised to announce the fourth generation of streetcar for the city, either Bombardier's Flexicity Outlook or Siemens' Combino Plus.

-Sun Media

 

[W. K. Lis]

The Ontario Highway Traffic Act fine for failing to yield to a bus is $90. Making an illegal left turn is $85. How many have been hit by a cop for those infractions?

We currently have red light cameras, which take photographs of vehicles running red lights. A ticket is sent to the owner of the vehicle, but they don't get demerit points.

I would like to see camcorders on the new light-rail vehicles, so that the driver can film violators of vehicles making illegal left turns, double parked vehicles, vehicles passing open doors, and other infractions. No demerit points, but at least we could catch violators instead of wishing there was a cop on board at the time.

 

[taal]

Darn ... I'm going to miss our old ones. To be honest with you all these new ones look pretty much the same on the outside - there isn't much in the room of creativity. Our old (current) ones are so much more distinctive.

Maybe if they make them red it'll help.

 

[DavidH]

Darn ... I'm going to miss our old ones. To be honest with you all these new ones look pretty much the same on the outside - there isn't much in the room of creativity. Our old (current) ones are so much more distinctive.

Maybe if they make them red it'll help.

Well, you have another nine years to enjoy them before they're gone.

I doubt I'll miss CLRVs anywhere near as much as I miss PCCs.

 

[ganjavih]

The Siemens model looks better... is it wider? Anyway, is there any doubt that Bombardier is going to win?

 

[DavidH]

The Siemens model looks better... is it wider? Anyway, is there any doubt that Bombardier is going to win?

Yes, there is doubt.

Can you imagine, for example, a Siemens facility going to Oshawa or Windsor? What is the political value in that right now?

 

[MisterF]

It could be possible that Bombardier would build a new plant in southern Ontario too. Can the Thunder Bay plant handle the number of vehicles Toronto needs?