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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

Duck said:
But is the difference to the average Joe so much different that it's worth claiming Bombardier is guilty of the extinction of the human race, as many would lead one to believe?
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Yes. Try taking a CLRV streetcar during the morning rush hour. I guarantee you would have a different response after having to wait for multiple cars to go by before getting one that had a small space for you to stand.

Not to say that the new streetcars will 100% help with capacity issues, but taking the existing stretcars can be a horrible experience especially during peak periods, not to mention if you have mobility issues.
 
But what I am saying: you've had that for 30+ years. It is not suddenly worse now. It is only perceived as being worse because the LRV's are so much better.
 
Duck said:
...but you have old streetcars. Yes they're falling apart but that's because the TTC stopped maintaining them. Yes they stopped maintaining them because they expected them to go EOL based on FLEXITY streetcars coming online, but that was a mistake. Should have waited until the first few came along to decide to let the old ones die. Now you're stuck in this scenario.
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The new streetcars coming online is part and parcel of a legal arrangement with BBD - and it is BBD which failed at delivering them on time. Stop blaming others for their incompetence on the file. They had two+ years - and why should TTC make a decision with the assumption that BBD is such a fail at their job? Would you have tolerated someone causing you delays and headaches because someone else failed to deliver their end of their bargain? No - and TTC has a contract at that.

And sorry, I think those of us who actually use the system - frequently or otherwise - have a far better claim on how it affects us than someone going gaga over BBD.

AoD
 
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ottbike said:
Yes. Try taking a CLRV streetcar during the morning rush hour. I guarantee you would have a different response after having to wait for multiple cars to go by before getting one that had a small space for you to stand.

Not to say that the new streetcars will 100% help with capacity issues, but taking the existing stretcars can be a horrible experience especially during peak periods, not to mention if you have mobility issues.
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Not to mention the reliability issue over the winter.

AoD
 
To divert attention temporarily from the delivery fiasco, here is a video showing what was reportedly the first test run of the Cherry Loop:

 
Duck said:
...but you have old streetcars. Yes they're falling apart but that's because the TTC stopped maintaining them. Yes they stopped maintaining them because they expected them to go EOL based on FLEXITY streetcars coming online, but that was a mistake. Should have waited until the first few came along to decide to let the old ones die. Now you're stuck in this scenario.

My point was: why do you care what kind of streetcar you get on? Yes, most of us are train fans and we all like the new ones better. But is the difference to the average Joe so much different that it's worth claiming Bombardier is guilty of the extinction of the human race, as many would lead one to believe?
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Jesus you'll twist yourself into the most ridiculous contortions to blame the TTC for this mess. I can see why forumers either ignore you or tease you. How is it the TTC's fault their streetcars reached their limit after 30 years? And for that matter, surely it was completely reasonable of the TTC to expect that Bombardier, a multi-billion dollar transnational corporation, specializing in rail vehicles (!), would have been capable of meeting their order.

As for your point about already having streetcars, KWC has buses and a BRT-lite routing their already using. So maybe they should be the ones waiting? They can run the buses in the separated laneways that are being built as we speak. Toronto, on the other hand, barely has enough buses to provide its suburban routes, let alone downtown. Remember, the 508 has been cancelled permanently (until more streetcars arrive at least) and the 502 and 503 are running entirely with buses. Due to shortages. Which is entirely Bombardier's fault. Your inability to see this and dance around the issue is frankly stunning.
 
wolfewood said:
Jesus you'll twist yourself into the most ridiculous contortions to blame the TTC for this mess. I can see why forumers either ignore you or tease you.
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I've come to the decision that he's either OCD, otherwise impaired or just trolling. There's no other way anyone would be blaming the customer and wouldn't be raging against Bombardier.

I imagine anyone who works for the light rail part of this firm in Ontario hangs their head in shame (or denies working there) every time these ridiculous delays occur.
 
I do find it extremely curious that the true details of the delays aren't really known yet. I'm sure there's not one simple reason, but still - it seems odd that in this age of great investigative journalism that nobody has managed to dig into this story more.
 
chriskayTO said:
I do find it extremely curious that the true details of the delays aren't really known yet. I'm sure there's not one simple reason, but still - it seems odd that in this age of great investigative journalism that nobody has managed to dig into this story more.
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Last we heard it was because of Mexican production issues. But those were "fixed", so I'm not sure what the issue is anymore. I'm starting to wonder if the "damn foreigners" excuse might be a scapegoat at this point.
 
Duck said:
But what I am saying: you've had that for 30+ years. It is not suddenly worse now. It is only perceived as being worse because the LRV's are so much better.
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That is just not true.

Streetcar ridership in Toronto has increased 50% in the last 10 years, when they started the process to get the 204 vehicles (much of the reason they want to increase the order to 264.

They've already had to take over a dozen CLRV and ALRVs out of service permanently because they were in such poor shape.

And because of the streetcar shortage, they have not been able to add the additional vehicles necessary in rush-hour - particularly AM peak - on several routes. One route has been cancelled all together, 2 routes have been completely replaced by buses, and another route has been supplemented by buses.

Every day, I see people left standing behind, because there's not enough capacity on the existing vehicles. And it's getting worse.

I have taken transit in KW - and I've never seen the number 7 bus leave people behind during rush-hour because it's too full.

From 2005 to 2015 TTC reports streetcar ridership has increased by over 20 million a year. To put that in perspective, that's an increase in 10 years of over 65,000 streetcars riders a day. Which is far bigger than the entire Grand River Transit ridership combined - let alone the relatively small ridership projection for Ion.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Last we heard it was because of Mexican production issues. But those were "fixed", so I'm not sure what the issue is anymore. I'm starting to wonder if the "damn foreigners" excuse might be a scapegoat at this point.
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Given the same plant has produced at least 16 subway cars already this year, and I think even more GO cab cars, in the same period of time they've only produced 3 streetcars, my gut feel is that it's not a Thunder Bay issue.
 
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