TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[Johnny Au]

Bowser took over the Bob-Omb Corp. and the Bob-Ombs are making the Flexities as slowly as possible to fatten their wallets, leaving us to starve.

We should rename a certain transportation vehicle manufacturing company Bob-Omb Corp.

 

[nfitz]

I am curious how Nfitz will make this all sound reasonable.

Defend what? I haven't defended Bombardier gross incompetence and ineptitude. And I've been attacking them with increasing vigour for months.

Simply because I pointed out that some people's claims about Bombardier were factually very wrong, doesn't mean that I'm defending them.

If you were to claim that George Bush shot David Bowie - and I pointed out that he did no such thing, it doesn't mean I am defending him.

Maybe it is a result of our advanced democracy again.

You still don't understand the meaning of "advanced democracy" do you? LOL! It doesn't mean what you think it means ... it's an economic classification.

It's too bad the max the TTC can sue for under the contract is $50M.

As I keep pointing out, there is no limit on what TTC can sue Bombardier for acting in bad faith.

And what's amazing, is that by publishing completely unrealistic short-term schedule after short-term schedule, Bombardier is demonstrating massive bad faith.

 

[W. K. Lis]

One new streetcar per month... the new normal. It seems.

 

[Duck]

The other interesting fact to consider is, considering all the production issues, how are they going to output both Waterloo and TTC flexities without impacting the production rate of the other. Assuming they will have to set up another production floor, but it isn't clear if that has happened, or how BBD will respond if they effectively have to choose to further delay one or the other.

I suspect they will favour Waterloo's order, because the TTC has already sued them. Long term, the standard FLEXITY Freedom for Waterloo has a brighter future than Toronto's one-off Outlook order.

 

[EnviroTO]

It will be interesting to see if the new management (Benoit Brossoit) will be able to get a handle on things quickly, at least to have an explanation of what is going on and how they will fix it, and a delivery plan not based on wishful thinking that whatever incompetence exists in their supply chain and Mexican plant will magically disappear. It sounds like this new leader was hired specifically to fix Bombardier Transportation's North American operations that are off the rails and missing out on all the opportunities as a result. CAF and Brookville are making inroads that really shouldn't have been possible if Sahagun, Thunder Bay, and Plattsburgh were all operating at peak efficiency, considering existing experience within the company in creating trams, existing plants which have delivered on large contracts, etc.

This is Bombardier's ninth inning and if they can get BT firing on all cylinders they can ride this wave of LRT/streetcar popularity and this renewed focus on transit infrastructure to get a tying run in. If they can get the Delta deal done and launch the CS500 they will have really hit one out the park.

 

[Napoleon]

It will be interesting to see if the new management (Benoit Brossoit) will be able to get a handle on things quickly, at least to have an explanation of what is going on and how they will fix it, and a delivery plan not based on wishful thinking that whatever incompetence exists in their supply chain and Mexican plant will magically disappear. It sounds like this new leader was hired specifically to fix Bombardier Transportation's North American operations that are off the rails and missing out on all the opportunities as a result.

This is exactly what I don't understand. If I were facing this big of a screw-up, I would start throwing whatever resources/cash/people were needed at it. At some point it's better to give up a profit on one order or take a small loss rather than take that much damage to your reputation. I guess I don't really get what the rate-limiting process is here. Is it unqualified assembly workers? A lack of supervision? Faulty parts in the supply chain? Identify it and fix it fast!

 

[Duck]

And that's the thing - none of us know what the exact problem is. Only what trickles in from the media, in however they (or TTC) spin it. And now Bombardier isn't going to tell us anything either because of the lawsuit - so that means we get nothing in terms of information. So the frustration is understandable.

 

[AlbertHWagstaff]

Guys, you won't believe the news that just came out! Bombardier, after weeks of promising that the streetcars will not be late anymore, announced that the streetcars will be late.


View attachment 73551

Shocking news!

For a real treat go back in this thread to 2010 onwards and read the reports of having something like 24 cars on hand for the first day of service, then 20, then 16, then 12, etc.

 

[Red October]

Maybe they really meant one streetcar every four months...

Can the TTC double sue?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The point is we don't need to know or care what the problem at Bombardier is, beyond the urge to understand. What we need to know is that they couldn't deliver what was promised in the contract, nor deliver according to the revised schedule - and that should be the starting point for any further discussion with said firm.

AoD

 

[rbt]

Maybe they really meant one streetcar every four months...

Can the TTC double sue?

Yes. If the courts agree the TTC is forced to retender, Bombardier could be on the hook for any cost escalation and other expenses incurred by the TTC. When and what exactly this means will depend on the specific wording of the agreement. TTC may have very little room to manoeuvre until after the 2019 deadline.

 

[Jonny5]

To go back into the market the TTC would basically be desperate at this point, right? The manufacturers would know this. Prices for vehicles will be inflated astronomically rates. Toronto has no leverage in the negotiations. They don't need the TTC.

 

[Duck]

The point is we don't need to know or care what the problem at Bombardier is, beyond the urge to understand. What we need to know is that they couldn't deliver what was promised in the contract, nor deliver according to the revised schedule - and that should be the starting point for any further discussion with said firm.

AoD

The point should more be: how does this affect you, personally?

And if the answer is "well, not much", as it will be for the vast majority of the population, then maybe it's time to move on and find something else to gripe about.

 

[wolfewood]

The point should more be: how does this affect you, personally?

And if the answer is "well, not much", as it will be for the vast majority of the population, then maybe it's time to move on and find something else to gripe about.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point here but you do realize that the streetcars Bombardier is failing to deliver are an integral part of the TTC's network right? I don't know about the posters in this forum but nearly 300,000 people rely on the city's streetcar network. A network that is actively failing because of Bombardier's failures. This isn't about train spotting or liking a certain company (as your posts seem to suggest), this is about getting to work everyday. I don't need the streetcar because I live close enough to my campus to walk but even I'm starting to see the problems Bombardier is causing. So again, maybe I'm reading this wrong but if you're suggesting that Bombardier's consistent failures aren't a personal issue for a lot of us, you're horribly mistaken.

 

[Duck]

...but you have old streetcars. Yes they're falling apart but that's because the TTC stopped maintaining them. Yes they stopped maintaining them because they expected them to go EOL based on FLEXITY streetcars coming online, but that was a mistake. Should have waited until the first few came along to decide to let the old ones die. Now you're stuck in this scenario.

My point was: why do you care what kind of streetcar you get on? Yes, most of us are train fans and we all like the new ones better. But is the difference to the average Joe so much different that it's worth claiming Bombardier is guilty of the extinction of the human race, as many would lead one to believe?