nfitz
Superstar
Sand is used year-round, as far as I know. I've certainly seen clouds of dust coming towards me as the vehicle brakes on a warm summer day - and watched them filling up the sand in terminal stations in the summer.
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EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
I caught some part of a couple of the new streetcars on diversion today.
smallspy
Senior Member
Hmm, yes - but last weekend it was ~15 C and clear skies.I wouldn't have imagined they use sand in fair weather - or do they? (I honestly don't know) @smallspy ? Do you know what the noise I described could be?
It's the sanders. The new cars have automated sanders that detect wheelslip and automatically apply sand when needed. Even in good weather conditions, the sanders may be needed under hard braking or accelerating.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Why's aren't sanders also used on the subway?
innsertnamehere
Superstar
so we are now 7 days into March and no sign of 4418. Considering we are supposed to have 4421 by the end of the month.. I'm guessing Bombardier is continuing to fail on its delivery schedule.
robmausser
Senior Member
The subway operates in a right of way on a fixed block signaling system and thus does not have to brake nearly as quickly as a streetcar.
A streetcar has to stop as quickly as the cars it operates with in mixed traffic.
robmausser
Senior Member
I am guessing some account team at Bomb has crunched the numbers on delay fees, getting sued, bad publicity, vs the cost of accelerating production to meet goals and has determined its simply not worth the cost.
Like when car companies determine the cost of recall is more than the families of dead relatives suing for accidents due to the mechanical failure.
Megaton327
Senior Member
Also, my understanding is the liquidated damages in the contract are 5% for late deliveries...and as I understand it (please correct me if I'm wrong) if the TTC collects those liquidated damages now, it's not like they can reapply those every 10 cars or every year or whatnot, that's the lifetime max for the contract...so basically if the TTC gets those damages, there is no longer any incentive whatsoever to Bombardier to produce the cars any more frequently than once a year.
nfitz
Superstar
TTC has already made it clear they will sue for more than the limit of damages in the contract.
If they can prove Bombardier is acting in bad faith, the contractual limit on damages would be thrown out.
georgevicbell
Active Member
One might even think at this point that it could be used as a bargaining chip in negotiations with the federal government...along the lines of - if we can't get another 1B$ from the feds we might have to cancel that Toronto contract - and with it chances of a second Trudeau term.
The worst that could happen at this point is that the feds cave and let the family retain control.
The worst that could happen at this point is that the feds cave and let the family retain control.
robmausser
Senior Member
Whatever the reason its pretty clear that Bombardier doesn't care.
If they wanted to ramp up production, they could have, albeit at varying levels of expense.
Clearly they don't think that expense is worth it.
If they wanted to ramp up production, they could have, albeit at varying levels of expense.
Clearly they don't think that expense is worth it.
Johnny Au
Senior Member
Sanders is busy campaigning on other matters. He will get to public transit funding shortly. Yes, I know that we aren't talking about Bernie here.
crs1026
Superstar
Oh.....Sanders.....I was gonna say, you can't use Saunders in the subway because the roof is too low for his style of hitting, and he'd probably trip iver the thid rail and hurt himself.....
Seriously, sand in the subway would be a bad idea because in that closed environment, it would collect and have to be removed, to keep it from getting in the machinery etc. It's ok in an outdoor environment because it mostly blows away.
- Paul
Seriously, sand in the subway would be a bad idea because in that closed environment, it would collect and have to be removed, to keep it from getting in the machinery etc. It's ok in an outdoor environment because it mostly blows away.
- Paul
dowlingm
Senior Member
Sand would clog the ballast, I would think.
the lemur
Senior Member
There's also the fact that most subway tunnels have some degree of water infiltration to deal with, which would not be a good combination with sand.