TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[Napoleon]

The issue in both of the situations was operators driving far faster than they should have been considering the circumstances, and simply not taking to the time or care to ensure that the switches were set in the correct direction. In both cases, they were set for the diverging, and the car was travelling at such a rate of speed that it changed while the car was over top of it.

Just some curiosity here. I notice on other transit systems that streetcars generally travel much faster through switches than in Toronto...do they have a different set-up? I have experienced being routed onto the wrong track several times in my transit life: once on MUNI and twice on BART (while the trains were being computer-driven nonetheless) and once on NJ Transit. The former was a rather long backing up process to fix the issue. On the TTC, can the drivers see the electronic settings for the switches on their control panel?

 

[Forgotten]

Just some curiosity here. I notice on other transit systems that streetcars generally travel much faster through switches than in Toronto...do they have a different set-up? I have experienced being routed onto the wrong track several times in my transit life: once on MUNI and twice on BART (while the trains were being computer-driven nonetheless) and once on NJ Transit. The former was a rather long backing up process to fix the issue. On the TTC, can the drivers see the electronic settings for the switches on their control panel?

That's because contrary to the opinions of others that everything is fine, other parts of the world have advanced to newer, better, and more reliable technology.

 

[Duck]

Thanks Dan, that's fantastic. I assume:

X = Yaw
Y = Pitch
Z = Roll

When you say active damping, do you mean like actual servo-driven linear actuators?

 

[crs1026]

That's because contrary to the opinions of others that everything is fine, other parts of the world have advanced to newer, better, and more reliable technology.

Can you point us to transit operators that have solved this one?

If there's a solution whose time has come, then great. Otherwise, sometimes it's better to stick with the dumb, old, analog technology from years gone by. A lot of that stuff was pretty clever, and still works well.

Toronto's system does have a couple of extreme challenges - one being winter (although lots of European tram lines have this also), the other being that its network has a relatively high number of paved-street track switches (thinks to being such an intensive grid of lines, with many alternate routings intended). I doubt MUNI or BART worry too much about ice, salt, or sand either.

One thing that does seem really dumb - the concept of priority signalling and other-side streetcar stops is pretty critical to downtown streetcar velocity. An operating procedure that demands stopping before entering intersections pretty much negates this concept. And so many key downtown intersections have specialwork, so this will happen frequently. If TTC's approach is to live with this contradiction, they are foolish.

- Paul

 

[W. K. Lis]

One other point is that the other transit operators get the needed funds to upgrade from federal and/or state governments. The TTC only gets its operational subsidy from the City of Toronto. Therefore the TTC has to cut, cut, cut. They save money by having the streetcar operators stop at each switch instead of spending money on better switches.

Want better switches? Get the funds from the province and federal governments to operate at the level needed.

 

[smallspy]

Just some curiosity here. I notice on other transit systems that streetcars generally travel much faster through switches than in Toronto...do they have a different set-up? I have experienced being routed onto the wrong track several times in my transit life: once on MUNI and twice on BART (while the trains were being computer-driven nonetheless) and once on NJ Transit. The former was a rather long backing up process to fix the issue. On the TTC, can the drivers see the electronic settings for the switches on their control panel?

There is absolutely no feedback/transmission external to the switch itself. The system is designed entirely on the interpretation by the operator of the physical switch blade itself. In the past, this has not been an issue in Toronto, nor any of the other cities that used streetcars running on-street, as generally the speeds are such that a derailment is not a particularly dangerous event. (Boston in fact changed its switch mechanisms not due to problems with the switches themselves, but rather with due to problems with some of the equipment running on them.)

In the case of MUNI, BART and NJT, those are systems operating with signalling systems, and thus there are protocols involved should anything happen that requires reversing the equipment over a switch. I've had the same happen twice on GO, and both times resulted in a 5+ minute delay due to the regulations involved.

On the TTC, there are protocols that have been developed with regards to running through a switch incorrectly, but from a safety and regulatory standpoint it is much easier to deal with - with the aid of a spotter, the operator could reverse the streetcar clear of the switch, manually change it, and continue on his or her merry way. (Of course, with the current protocols, that is not strictly allowed in Toronto, but it was until relatively recently.)

Thanks Dan, that's fantastic. I assume:

X = Yaw
Y = Pitch
Z = Roll

Correct.

When you say active damping, do you mean like actual servo-driven linear actuators?

To be honest, I'm not sure of their exact nature - they may be closer to hydraulic or pneumatic dampeners - but they are controlled by the onboard computer system. Such devices and systems are now commonly used in articulated buses as well.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Napoleon]

Just spotted 4412 in normal service on Spadina!

 

[interchange42]

and in fact…

Eleventh new TTC streetcar enters service

November 10, 2015

The TTC's newest low-floor streetcar, car number 4412, entered service on the 510 Spadina route this morning, bringing the total number of new streetcars in service to 11.

Low-floor streetcars are equipped with PRESTO machines and ticket validators to allow customers to pay their fare. The machines will also allow customers without a smartcard to purchase a single-ride Proof-of-Payment ticket using coins or tokens.

Both the 510 Spadina and the 509 Harbourfront routes are Proof-of-Payment, allowing customers with a transfer or valid TTC pass to board at any door.

The new car joins the other 10 accessible low-floor streetcars in service on the 510 Spadina and 509 Harbourfront routes. The new streetcars feature a higher passenger capacity, air conditioning, and are fully accessible for customers using mobility devices.

The TTC's low-floor streetcar project is funded by the Government of Canada's federal Gas Tax Fund, the Government of Ontario and the City of Toronto.

 

[Tulse]

How many of the new streetcars are needed to fully cover routes 510 and 509?

 

[smallspy]

How many of the new streetcars are needed to fully cover routes 510 and 509?

14 for Spadina alone excepting spares. Harbourfront was a bit more of a moving target, but I believe it was 7.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[pstogios]

the total number of new streetcars in service to 11.

There are only 6 currently in service and it is peak time. What the hell are those other 5 "in service" cars doing?

I'm so sick of this BS use of the word "in service." I have been harping on this issue for months and months and I won't stop until the TTC gets their sh*t together.

The TTC needs to stop the BS propaganda and be clear with their wording -- there are 11 new streetcars available for service, not actually in service.

 

[salsa]

 

[nfitz]

14 for Spadina alone excepting spares.

14? It was 12 in the Streetcar fleet plan in the 2015 budget at AM peak replacing 15 CLRVs. But they run 21 CLRVs mid-afternoon and PM peak. - I'd be surprised those 21 CLRVS are only replaced by 14 Flexities.

Harbourfront was a bit more of a moving target, but I believe it was 7.

That's the number in the 2015 capital budget to replace the 8 CLRVs during AM Peak. But they run 10 in PM peak.

I'm so sick of this BS use of the word "in service." I have been harping on this issue for months and months and I won't stop until the TTC gets their sh*t together.

The TTC needs to stop the BS propaganda and be clear with their wording -- there are 11 new streetcars available for service, not actually in service.

I'm seeing 7 currently. There have been occasions when there have been all 10 cars in service. Presumably there will be occasions when all 11 are. Currently 4404, 4405, 4410, and 4411 are not in service according to the nextbus data. (you might have missed 4403, which is for some reason at Bathurst station right now). There's going to be some training, and some maintenance during the day. I hardly see a big deal about this.

 

[TOareaFan]

There are only 6 currently in service and it is peak time. What the hell are those other 5 "in service" cars doing?

I'm so sick of this BS use of the word "in service." I have been harping on this issue for months and months and I won't stop until the TTC gets their sh*t together.

The TTC needs to stop the BS propaganda and be clear with their wording -- there are 11 new streetcars available for service, not actually in service.

I think most of us "get" that they mean in service in the general sense that they are available for service......at any given time any streetcar (or any vehicle ) may be not physcially moving/serving at any given time.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

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View attachment 59131

Wow. At least ONE more streetcar COULD be in service within the next two months. Thanks Bombarider.