EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
so they will have 60 cars from a different manufacture with no parts in common with them?
|
|
|
drum118
Superstar
Wouldn't be the first system to do this. Some have more than 2.
How do you know parts are not interchangeable in the first place without seeing a tender or specs?
Boston, SF, Minneapolis have 2 or more suppliers with a new one being added to the mix that come to mind at this time.
Given how far our dollars has drop this year, its hurting BBD in the pocket book as well, since they have to pay more for the parts made outside of Canada
Last edited:
JayBeeGooner
Active Member
It's normal for agencies to fleets with different models in them. Our bus fleet is a mix of Nova's, Orion, and NFI's. It's not a big deal.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Back in August, 2014, one needed USD 0.9142 or MXN 12.0980 to buy CAD 1.0. In July, 2015, one needed USD 0.7793 or MXN 12.2903 to buy CAD 1.0. From this link. So it would depend where in world, other than the U.S., that they get the parts from.
johntauren
Active Member
@StreetcarTO
Streetcar #4409 has arrived and is being offloaded at our Hillcrest Complex. Look out for it on the street soon! #TTC
Streetcar #4409 has arrived and is being offloaded at our Hillcrest Complex. Look out for it on the street soon! #TTC
nfitz
Superstar
Only 43 days since the last one arrived. I suppose an improvement on the previous 49 days ...
Though based on the CEOs report for next weeks TTC meeting - http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Com...ecutive_Officer_s_Report_July_2015_Update.pdf - it was to be shipped on June 19th, in the new June schedule from Bombardier. Which means that the new schedule from Bombardier is already completely blown. Doesn't bode well ... clearly patience at TTC is evaporating.
Though based on the CEOs report for next weeks TTC meeting - http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Com...ecutive_Officer_s_Report_July_2015_Update.pdf - it was to be shipped on June 19th, in the new June schedule from Bombardier. Which means that the new schedule from Bombardier is already completely blown. Doesn't bode well ... clearly patience at TTC is evaporating.
smallspy
Senior Member
How do you figure? For one, it probably isn't the TTC's call to cancel those cars - the options for the order were assigned to someone else, who then took that order. Regardless of who's order they were to start with, that contract has now been signed between the two parties.
Right, so Tram Power can come back to Toronto and complain about how they were excluded the first time, right? Or so that the other 15 manufacturers in the world can once again say "Naw, we're not going to bother again."
Seriously, what do you think there would be to gain by putting out the order to tender at this point? If the potential for the single largest light-rail vehicle contract in history wasn't enough to get more companies interested, why would they come back 6 years later for a piddly little order of 60 cars? Oh, and remember that this is not an off-the-shelf vehicle running on an off-the-shelf system, so all of that engineering would then have to be accounted for in the vehicle price.
5 Cs and 2 As thus far. Maybe not a huge proportion as yet, but they are certainly starting to fall.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
TOareaFan
Superstar
So, basically, one for one at this point
nfitz
Superstar
It certainly wouldn't be TTC's call to cancel (perhaps my pronoun usage was poor there). But presumably the pricing on that contract was based that 204 cars were already committed for. If those are cancelled, then presumably there are terms in the contract after the Metrolinx option, that the cancellation of the 204, would have impacts on the Metrolinx option.
Not that I think anyone is going down that path ...
rbt
Senior Member
Not necessarily. Bombardier would have tendered a fixed $CAD price for N units of each part required, where N is enough to fill the full order + TTC spare parts order + most warranty issues. When you start ordering millions of dollars worth of components over a large number of years, manufacturers will happily fix the exchange rate at the start of the contract.
Ensuring availability through the entire contract is the primary concern. Eliminating currency speculation (not something any sane CFO would allow anyway) is a happy bonus.
Of course, retendering with a different supplier or for a different component mid-way through is a different matter. Oh, and any components Bombardier gets from itself are obviously going to be subject to wage and direct-cost fluctuation.
Last edited:
Napoleon
Active Member
I think this statement is right on the money. The engineering and tooling requirements for only 60 cars is likely to price this out of the range that the TTC wants not to mention the time it would take to begin building it. They're between a rock and a hard place now. I think the only route is to stick it out with Bombardier, get some liquidated damages, and learn from the experience when it comes time to bid next time.
nfitz
Superstar
Absolutely - though the most $ seems to be coming from Mexico, and there hasn't been much fluctuation between the Canadian dollar and the Peso in the last 5 years. And I suspect after that the most parts are coming from Europe, and there hasn't been massive fluctuation with the Euro either.
It's not so much that the Canadian dollar has slid internationally recently, but the US dollar (and UK pound) have risen. It's only parts sourced from the US or UK that are particularly impacted.
smallspy
Senior Member
I haven't seen the contract - although I suspect it would be available with a freedom of information request - but I would suspect that once the pricing between Metrolinx and Bombardier has been finalized, it no longer matters what happens with the TTC's order. That's certainly been the case in other scenarios where this kind of situation has been used.
Actually, in terms of dollar value, the majority of the project comes from Europe - almost all of the electrical and mechanical bits. The structure is a relatively small portion by comparison.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
dowlingm
Senior Member
The reality is that staff are not driving this, they are answering a question from Commissioners. I suspect the confidential attachment says something like "you can't get blood from a stone, we're just going to have to grin and bear this"
nfitz
Superstar
True - but I fear the very existence of such a report will make it more politically difficult for council to put the funding for the 60 additional cars in the 2016 budget.