TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[junctionist]

Is it correct that the TTC didn't take ownership of the vehicle when the grafetti incident happened? If so, I assume that Bombardier would have to pay for the clean up

It depends on the contract, which should note when property in the goods passes. If the contract makes no reference to that, property passes when the goods are made and appropriated to the contract--in this case, probably when put on the train for shipping (Ontario's Sale of Goods Act, section 19, Rule 5). At that point, the TTC would own the streetcar. If that's the case with this contract, the TTC can seek damages from the carrier (the railway company) to compensate for the cost of cleaning up the streetcar.

 

[nfitz]

It depends on the contract, which should note when property in the goods passes. If the contract makes no reference to that, property passes when the goods are made and appropriated to the contract--in this case, probably when put on the train for shipping (Ontario's Sale of Goods Act, section 19, Rule 5). At that point, the TTC would own the streetcar. If that's the case with this contract, the TTC can seek damages from the carrier (the railway company) to compensate for the cost of cleaning up the streetcar.

Don't we already know that the vehicles remain to be Bombardier property until after TTC accepts them? And the that occurs after they get them to Hillcrest and put some mileage on them.

TTC haven't accepted 4401, 4402, and 4407 and all 3 remain property of Bombardier as far as I know.

 

[junctionist]

It's hardly common knowledge. If that's the case, then Bombardier is the owner and responsible until the TTC accepts as per whatever they put in the contract.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Don't we already know that the vehicles remain to be Bombardier property until after TTC accepts them? And the that occurs after they get them to Hillcrest and put some mileage on them.

TTC haven't accepted 4401, 4402, and 4407 and all 3 remain property of Bombardier as far as I know.

As far as I know, this is correct. TTC doesn't take ownership of vehicles until some extensive testing. Hopefully small spy can confirm

 

[W. K. Lis]

I would have expected the same situation would have occurred with the Toronto Rocket subway cars. Until the TTC accepts the vehicles, its Bombardier's problem.

Ditto with that new car you ordered. You expect to see no graffiti on your new car, when you drive off with it at your car dealer.

 

[junctionist]

It's all a matter of how the sales contract is drafted. Allowing the TTC to test every single streetcar before taking ownership would be a great clause for the TTC.

 

[nfitz]

It's hardly common knowledge.

No, but isn't it further up this very thread, and also partly discussed in the previous page?

 

[kotsy]

Flexity Streetcar at Union Station by its only kotsy, on Flickr

 

[the lemur]

Does anyone know where the photos of the graffiti'd streetcar were taken? Or have a link to the Reddit page?

 

[pstogios]

Why isn't the 510 streetcar line back in service now that the construction at the Spadina and College intersection is finished?
The 506 diversion has ended and the TTC website doesn't say why buses will replace streetcars on the 510 until May 9.

 

[drum118]

Why isn't the 510 streetcar line back in service now that the construction at the Spadina and College intersection is finished?
The 506 diversion has ended and the TTC website doesn't say why buses will replace streetcars on the 510 until May 9.

There is track work on Spadina and at the station still to be done.

 

[AlbertHWagstaff]

There is track work on Spadina and at the station still to be done.

And even if all the work was done, the board period (scheduling period) goes until May 9. The buses are scheduled for the entire period, even if the track work finishes early.

 

[nfitz]

And even if all the work was done, the board period (scheduling period) goes until May 9. The buses are scheduled for the entire period, even if the track work finishes early.

True, though if they were really finished very early, it wouldn't be that difficult to swap the streetcars that were moved to the 504 short-turn and the 509 extra cars back to 510, and move the 510 buses to the 504 short-turn service.

 

[AlbertHWagstaff]

True, though if they were really finished very early, it wouldn't be that difficult to swap the streetcars that were moved to the 504 short-turn and the 509 extra cars back to 510, and move the 510 buses to the 504 short-turn service.

Except that you'd then have 25 buses running all day on the 504, and the 25 streetcars would only run for the AM rush hour on 510. Don't forget it's not just the vehicles, but the drivers. The drivers currently doing the 504 AM extras are scheduled only to do the AM runs so they wouldn't stay out all day for 510 unless you paid a ton of overtime to get drivers to cover it. Likewise the 510 bus drivers would work a few hours and then have nothing to do in the midday. The streetcar and bus drivers are from different divisions and could not swap vehicles. That would be very complicated to switch things around, so the schedule would continue to the end of the period. They had bus replacement service on 502 a couple of times for construction on Kingston Rd which ended up cancelled but the buses had to run anyway.

Things will go back to normal for rush hour on Monday May 11 and the Flexity cars will be back on 510.

 

[nfitz]

Except that you'd then have 25 buses running all day on the 504, and the 25 streetcars would only run for the AM rush hour on 510.

Ah, I wasn't thinking about the timing issues, just AM peak. Good point!