nfitz
Superstar
Why when I've already pointed out that it's cheaper to do it this way than waste our money trying to synchronize things and do them once. Do you not remember the lessons of St. Clair?
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1overcosc
Active Member
What really grinds me is the related issue of how utilities work is done. It's annoying when they rip up a road to fix the sewers, then two years later rip up the whole road again to fix the electricity.
Kingston has merged all local utilities into a single department (ie: the city owned Kingston Hydro was merged with the city run water/sewer department) that has yielded huge bucks in efficiencies and resulted in better co-ordinated construction.
Kingston has merged all local utilities into a single department (ie: the city owned Kingston Hydro was merged with the city run water/sewer department) that has yielded huge bucks in efficiencies and resulted in better co-ordinated construction.
nfitz
Superstar
Taking Toronto Hydro, knocking all the heads together, firing half of management, and putting it under direct City control would probably save more money and sort out more of these problems than worrying about a small amount of money for a few streetcar ramps.
DSC
Superstar
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Though Hydro are certainly a pain to work with, they do have the problem that their finances must be approved by the Ontario Energy Board and if they do not approve rate increases then Hydro has a hard time scheduling projects. From my experience the phone utilities are equally as bad about digging up freshly paved streets. In Montreal there is a municipal group who own most (?) of the underground conduits and rent them out to Hydro, utilities etc. In theory this should reduce repeated digs but ...
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Have you ever seen construction companies pouring concrete foundations, only to have them cut the concrete for alterations or utilities?
They are doing the same along the Eglinton Crosstown. They are pouring concrete headwalls for the stations, then cutting through them with the TBMs.
Happens all the time. Concrete is "softest" just after they are poured. Over the years, concrete will get harder and harder.
They are doing the same along the Eglinton Crosstown. They are pouring concrete headwalls for the stations, then cutting through them with the TBMs.
Happens all the time. Concrete is "softest" just after they are poured. Over the years, concrete will get harder and harder.
TransitPolicyChanger
Active Member
Having dealt with them directly on many projects - Toronto Hydro is the worst. We have to understand a lot of what they do is extremely dangerous, and they put some serious restrictions around their work (this costs big $$$) - but its always their way or no way.
dowlingm
Senior Member
If Toronto City Council got their hand out of Hydro's pocket, there would be tens of millions more every year to get ahead of the penny pinchers at OEB.
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In that case the City should simply divest itself of Toronto Hydro - one can argue about whether utilities like Hydro should be public or private but if they are public then the 'public owner' should take a fair return on their investment. You can certainly argue that the City takes too much and should reinvest more but if there was no 'dividend' I would see no reason to keep on being an owner.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Unfortunately for Toronto (or fortunately depending on what side you are on ownership of utilities) the time to make that decision was years ago. There was a period of time allowed for municipalities to make the decision to sell and be able to do so without paying capital gains tax to the province. Lots of munis did this....once the deadline is passed (as it has) a capital gains tax of (if I recall correctly) 33% has to be paid.
dowlingm
Senior Member
Rubbish. It (forgoing dividends or reinvesting them) would be merely putting hydro on the same footing as water/sewer/garbage. Treating hydro as a merely financial entity misses the points made earlier about the effect hydro has on city projects, not to mention city expansions such as West Don Lands and Unilever on which so much future growth and revenue depends.
As an aside - Stintz' idea to part-sell Hydro was one of the reasons I considered her unfit to be mayor, since it demonstrated that she had not noticed that did not turn out well in Mississauga, with the 10% private tail wagging the 90% public dog.
muller877
Senior Member
If Hydro is being wagged right now by the public I would agree. But they are the last ones at the table. Every project is somehow delayed by Hydro. If there is a delay by Rogers or Bell, they quickly fix the problem.
They also are way too expensive. Again, the other utilities have outsourced a lot of their construction (quite often to union shops) which both saves them money and ensures they have the manpower for these jobs. There is a reason why the OEB says they can cut costs...because they can.
Other cities have identifed areas where lines should be buried (tourist areas, shopping districts and restaurant districts). When the road is torn up they bury the lines. Not expensive...the lines should be replaced anyways. But this coordinated approach you would expect from a public utility. But it is uncoordinated and that's the issue that a lot of people have.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Three Toronto councillors are on the Toronto Hydro Corporation Board of Directors. Maybe the Mayor has some input with who he selects for the board. Hopefully, with a new Mayor, there maybe something different.
dowlingm
Senior Member
I must say I am bewildered by how little focus there has been on hydro in this election cycle. Last winter's storm was a BFD and hydro clearly needs some strengthening.
Allandale25
Senior Member
Any update on when the next round of new streetcars will arrive? They only have four right now right (with two being demo models that went back)? How much did the strike delay things?