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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

ksun said:
only in Toronto walking 350 meters is SUCH a huge deal.
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I doubt it. Likely the same response in Ottawa, Vancouver, Montreal, or New York.

ksun said:
Honestly during your entire transit taking experience, how often do you really see a passenger who simply look like he/she can't walk for 5 minutes in Toronto? I have never.
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I don't believe that for a second. That means you've not once, in Toronto, have ever seen a wheelchair. And I've seen many who were walking, and had extremely difficult time of it. Couldn't climb stairs for example.

ksun said:
I explicitly said the entire TTC streetcar/most bus stops every 200 meters.
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Another one of your mistruths. There are plenty of stops in Toronto, even on downtown streetcar lines, that are longer than 200 metres. I just checked one on the 506, and it's 350 metres. Any many are longer than 200 metres.

ksun said:
Yet you pointed out one or two lines that have short spacing in London, a city 3 times our sizes with much higher ridership, yet complain other north American cities are not comparable due to lower ridership. Even London's 144m spacing is trumped by our 80-90m cases for Richmond-Queen or Victoria/Yonge, another evidence that TTC spacing is way too close.
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144 metres wasn't the shortest I could find though. I just zoomed into a neighbourhood I knew, and looked at a couple of spacings.
a) I'm sure I could find far shorter in London in some special places
b) Your using unusual Toronto examples, where they've already decided to remove the stops? What does that prove?

ksun said:
Seems that it is pretty reasonable to have 400m spacing as local service
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No, that's completely unreasonable, for a local bus or streetcar. It's fine for subway. Manhattan uses 200 metre spacing, and we're supposed to use 400 metres? No.

ksun said:
someone is making sense here.
all this "What about the senior/pregnant" concern is really more about "I don't want to walk 2 more minutes as that will be a minor inconvenience for me personally". Pregnant women who will deliver in two days will have no trouble walking that distance. Seniors who simply can't walk for 5 minutes, well, I can only say it is too dangerous for them to be outside in the city to start with! Transit shouldn't be planned based on the needs of 87 years olds who can hardly walk, should it?
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Your prejudice here against those who aren't young and fit is extremely disturbing. I find such a vile attitude to be highly antisocial and abhorrent.
 
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nfitz said:
I doubt it. Likely the same response in Ottawa, Vancouver, Montreal, or New York.
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I'm from Ottawa where the stops are much more widely spaced, especially along the transitway where the spacing is comparable to a subway. I never heard many people complaining, although usually they were more bothered by other aspects of service quality.

nfitz said:
I don't believe that for a second. That means you've not once, in Toronto, have ever seen a wheelchair. And I've seen many who were walking, and had extremely difficult time of it. Couldn't climb stairs for example.
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If they have that much trouble then there are services like wheel-trans to assist them.
 
ehlow said:
It's not like the low floors are only for accessibility. Even for groups of able bodied people it's faster to board a low floor streetcar than one with stairs.
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Was just trying to break/pause a bit of an edgy discussion with a bit of levity ;)
 
I've rode the new streetcars three times now and can't express how much I love them.

A few questions/thoughts...
  • It does strike me that there are too many stops on the line. Maybe it will get better once everyone learns the new systems, but it really did take far too long to get from even Queen to College (about 10 minutes). In fact, I probably could have walked faster. Proper transit priority could admittedly improve this too though.
  • "Blocking the box" continues to be a major problem in Toronto, particularly at rush hour. And it's really screwing up routes like the 510. Enforcement and fines need to be increased.
  • Do we have any indication that the TTC is slowly moving towards the Metrolinx (and international) 24-hour time standard? I've noticed that the 510 Spadina POP receipts are the first TTC fare media ever to be in 24-hour time. I tweeted @BradRossTTC about this, but never heard back.
 
P23 said:
I'm from Ottawa where the stops are much more widely spaced, especially along the transitway ...
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We're not talking the transitway here. Spacing is long on the transitway in North York, and no complaints.

Check the spacing on a regular downtown Ottawa bus. Say on Bank Street. Stops every 2 blocks - about 150 metres.
 
JasonParis said:
I've rode the new streetcars three times now and can't express how much I love them.

A few questions/thoughts...
  • It does strike me that there are too many stops on the line. Maybe it will get better once everyone learns the new systems, but it really did take far too long to get from even Queen to College (about 10 minutes). In fact, I probably could have walked faster. Proper transit priority could admittedly improve this too though.
  • "Blocking the box" continues to be a major problem in Toronto, particularly at rush hour. And it's really screwing up routes like the 510. Enforcement and fines need to be increased.
  • Do we have any indication that the TTC is slowly moving towards the Metrolinx (and international) 24-hour time standard? I've noticed that the 510 Spadina POP receipts are the first TTC fare media ever to be in 24-hour time. I tweeted @BradRossTTC about this, but never heard back.
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Was it slower than normal 510 operation? Was it the dwell time that was the problem, or the vehicle moving too slowly, or unable to go through the intersection due to cars in the "blocking the box"?

The whole blocking the box thing does annoy & worry me. I see it all the time at Yonge-Eg, one giant trunk or large van completely blocking the intersection, wasting a whole cycle for those blocked.
 
JasonParis said:
It actually struck me as slower than normal operations (CLRVs) to be completely honest, despite the all-door boarding. So yes, it was basically a dwell-time issue.
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That's unfortunate. I was hoping POP, all door boarding and level boarding would speed up dwell time. I guess it's so crowded that it takes a while for people to get on/off?

Hopefully it improves as time goes on.
 
nfitz said:
Your prejudice here against those who aren't young and fit is extremely disturbing. I find such a vile attitude to be highly antisocial and abhorrent.
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Are you saying that when the general practice is 400m spacing as I pointed out in my previous links, all those European and Australian cities are against the old and sick, and are anti-social and abhorrent? I have shown that it is 400m as local service is generally accept in denser European city, and you simply choose to ignore and insists removing stops is equal to discrimination.

In reality, it is simply impossible to guarantee that nobody has to walk for more than 200M in taking pubic transit. People need to walk in the city one way or another, in the stores, getting around in parks/hospitals, and if they can't, they simply can't function independent, and you act like I am being cold blooded if the infrastructure requires them to walk for more than 3 minutes. You can take the moral high ground anyway you want, but you are not been practical when it comes to transit planning.

If you completely ignore what is reasonable walking, let me ask this: why do you think requiring people to walk 200 meters is acceptable? Many may be too weak or sick to walk that much. It gives a lot more pain for someone with one foot and a clutch to walk 200M versus 50M or 30M, doesn't it? By forcing them to walk 200M instead, is TTC being anti-social.

Of course I don't expect you to respond directly.
 
ehlow said:
That's unfortunate. I was hoping POP, all door boarding and level boarding would speed up dwell time. I guess it's so crowded that it takes a while for people to get on/off?

Hopefully it improves as time goes on.
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Too many riders wait until you are in the bus/streetcar to find their cash/token/whatever. It happens EVERYDAY. Why can't they just have the money or POP ready BEFORE boarding? Instead they just stand there doing nothing and then fumble in their bag/purse for change in front of the farebox blocking everyone else. No advanced transit system can solve that problem. The door of the streetcar can be only this big.

It also happens in subway station where a passenger blocks the fare window looking for money to buy tickets, or ask many stupid questions, when a line of people are waiting behind for service. I honestly don't know why these people exist.

These people should be fined $50 each time for doing that.
 
ksun said:
Too many riders wait until you are in the bus/streetcar to find their cash/token/whatever. It happens EVERYDAY. Why can't they just have the money or POP ready BEFORE boarding? Instead they just stand there doing nothing and then fumble in their bag/purse for change in front of the farebox blocking everyone else. No advanced transit system can solve that problem. The door of the streetcar can be only this big.

It also happens in subway station where a passenger blocks the fare window looking for money to buy tickets, or ask many stupid questions, when a line of people are waiting behind for service. I honestly don't know why these people exist.

These people should be fined $50 each time for doing that.
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But... that's the whole point of POP, is that you can't block people from boarding by doing that. Everyone gets on and off and pays before or in the vehicle.
 
ksun said:
Are you saying that when the general practice is 400m spacing
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No, I'm not referring to that at all. (though anytime I've checked your claims about various cities not having 200 metre spacings, I've quickly found that your claims are false).

I'm simply referring to you various unsavoury comments about the those with disabilities.

ksun said:
Too many riders wait until you are in the bus/streetcar to find their cash/token/whatever. It happens EVERYDAY.
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I don't believe you've observed this happening every day on the new streetcars.
 
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