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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

JasonParis said:
I've rode the new streetcars three times now and can't express how much I love them.

A few questions/thoughts...
  • It does strike me that there are too many stops on the line. Maybe it will get better once everyone learns the new systems, but it really did take far too long to get from even Queen to College (about 10 minutes). In fact, I probably could have walked faster. Proper transit priority could admittedly improve this too though.
  • "Blocking the box" continues to be a major problem in Toronto, particularly at rush hour. And it's really screwing up routes like the 510. Enforcement and fines need to be increased.
  • Do we have any indication that the TTC is slowly moving towards the Metrolinx (and international) 24-hour time standard? I've noticed that the 510 Spadina POP receipts are the first TTC fare media ever to be in 24-hour time. I tweeted @BradRossTTC about this, but never heard back.
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I would love it if they switched to 24 hour time, it would make schedules and other such things so much more legible.
 
P23 said:
I would love it if they switched to 24 hour time, it would make schedules and other such things so much more legible.
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They could (should!) also change the ridiculous layout of the timetables they post on street poles. Their online ones are "vertical" which is the norm while the ones on the poles are horizontal and have the annoying FS designation that few Torontonians (and NO visitors) understand!
 
DSC said:
They could (should!) also change the ridiculous layout of the timetables they post on street poles. Their online ones are "vertical" which is the norm while the ones on the poles are horizontal and have the annoying FS designation that few Torontonians (and NO visitors) understand!
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...and the FS designation is meaningless, aside from using it to cut down on timetable space, especially given that we live in the age of smartphones.
 
P23 said:
On other systems I've even noticed people having trouble opening doors on vehicles because they use an unusual method like waving a hand or pressing a strip. Even though there are signs that describe how to use them most people either don't notice those, can't be bothered to read them or just don't understand english. You have to design things with these people in mind. I also anticipate this issue on the new streetcars since they use a button to open the doors which riders are unused to.
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I live in Brampton, and they've got all different types to open rear doors in service on bus, including Pushing a Bar, Touching the door and Waving your hand.
I find the problem is rarely with people not reading to do, but the doors not reacting properly or taking their time...leaving you waving your hands all crazy like when nothing happens.
Same is somewhat true of the older streetcars, and older replacement buses they used, having to fiddle with the back door to get out.

And there's the same problem as mentioned before, I've seen Yellow strips used to request stops in Brampton and Mississauga, but GO and TTC use the same thing for Emergencies. The only thing really in common with everything is the Red Request Stop Buttons.

I still want my chance to ride the new streetcar. Hopefully soon.
 
The whole "wave hand in front of door to open" thing is a complete usability disaster. I've seen this in effect in Kitchener-Waterloo, and nobody can figure out how to open the doors quickly and end up pushing uselessly or waving like crazy.

I'm really glad I've never seen this on TTC buses. A bar that you push on works fine.
 
ehlow said:
The whole "wave hand in front of door to open" thing is a complete usability disaster. I've seen this in effect in Kitchener-Waterloo, and nobody can figure out how to open the doors quickly and end up pushing uselessly or waving like crazy.

I'm really glad I've never seen this on TTC buses. A bar that you push on works fine.
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I've seen the waving one mostly on the Brampton Zum buses, but sometimes on other routes. It's really sensitive on Zum buses, less so when used on regular routes.
Sensitive enough that someone close enough to the door when it's crowded will open it.
All the Zum buses, from what I recall, have the wave to open the rear doors, but also have bars on the doors (that don't open the door) useful for handholds.
 
I rode the new streetcars for the first time today! (4403 northbound, 4400 southbound). While I liked the smoother, quieter ride; the general cleanliness and comfortable feel of the cars (air conditioning was a big plus); the surprisingly quick acceleration; and especially the all-door boarding, I couldn't help but notice a couple of problems which will I think only become more serious as time goes on:

i. Even while only moderately-full, the Stop Request buttons were remarkably inaccessible from certain seats on the car. I am not sure if it is the result of technical limitations, but the decision to remove the pull-string for Stop Requests was not a smart one.

ii. There's a lot of noise clutter in the streetcars. What with the chime before the doors slide open, the chord chime (like on the subway) before they close, and the route announcements outside of the car, it got annoying fairly quickly. In particular, the long chime before the doors close slows down operation of the streetcar in the same way that it does on the subway. However, I am aware these are accessibility requirements.

iii. The aisles are very narrow. I'm by no means a thickly-built person, and squeezing past people standing in the aisle was not easy at all.

iv. "510 Spadina (Spa-dye-nuh), to Queens Quay and Spadina (Spa-dee-nuh)". Seriously?

v. Overall, the 510 route still suffers from the same problems it always has. Transit priority signals please, because the new streetcars only make the ride more comfortable and a bit more spacious - they don't do anything to alleviate the bunching and slow moving.
 
MrsNesbitt said:
iii. The aisles are very narrow. I'm by no means a thickly-built person, and squeezing past people standing in the aisle was not easy at all.
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The aisle is a bottleneck between section. But why though is there any need to go from section to section? Only thing I can think of is to get to the fare vending machine - but then presumably those needing the fare vending machine will enter in one of the centre doors, and others will use the end doors.
 
nfitz said:
The aisle is a bottleneck between section. But why though is there any need to go from section to section? Only thing I can think of is to get to the fare vending machine - but then presumably those needing the fare vending machine will enter in one of the centre doors, and others will use the end doors.
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I was moving from the more-crowded area at the back of the streetcar towards the centre where there were some free seats. Though I do see what you mean - all-door boarding means less need to move about the cars.
 
AlbertHWagstaff said:
Then wny not just abolish the timetables on the poles completely if no one needs them and no one understands "FS"?
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The timetables are probably useless when there is (actual as opposed to theoretical) Frequent Service but they DO have a real purpose when service is every 20 or even 30 minutes. The main point I tried to make was that they should be formatted better and the TTC already knows how to do this as they do it for the online versions.
 
MrsNesbitt said:
Transit priority signals please, because the new streetcars only make the ride more comfortable and a bit more spacious - they don't do anything to alleviate the bunching and slow moving.
Click to expand...

While "slow -moving" is the most important feature of TTC streetcars, some studies choose to include the 510 and 512 as part of the "Rapid Transit", which is pretty funny. Even the ROW streetcars can't be further from the idea of RAPID transit.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/tra...ansit_failings_confirmed_in_second_study.html
 
MrsNesbitt said:
v. Overall, the 510 route still suffers from the same problems it always has. Transit priority signals please, because the new streetcars only make the ride more comfortable and a bit more spacious - they don't do anything to alleviate the bunching and slow moving.
Click to expand...
Well, given that all-door loading is supposed to reduce dwell time, I would actually expect bunching to be worse until a majority of cars on the line are the new ones. If the new vehicles are able to operate faster, then they will simply be catching up to the traditional streetcar in front of them.
 
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