TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[DSC]

Bunching? Surely you've observed the biggest problem with King is that at PM peak, it's faster many days to walk from Church to Bathurst, than take a streetcar.

And the biggest problem on King westbound from east of Church in the am peak is that (maybe because of bunching of east bound cars) lots of these cars get short-turned and re-enter west-bound service at Church - meaning that customers waiting at Jarvis, Sherbourne etc to get to the subway get VERY poor service. (Infrequent cars and VERY crowded ones.)

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Enough conjecture, let's close King Street to motorists and cyclists for a week and observe the consequences. I have a sneaking suspicion that the streetcars will still bunch up because that's the way the operators like it. The number of riders divided by the number of streetcars won't change so how will the service be improved?

Speed. As others have mentioned, it's faster to walk than take the streetcar. Closing down the street to vehicle traffic so the 50,000 or so daily riders will be able to get from Spadina to Yonge in 4 minute instead of 15 is a wise decision.

Anyways, if they do remove vehicle traffic from King and Queen, they better implement signal priority. It's going to be very irritating if a streetcar with 200 people has to stop so a car can cross the street.

 

[Jonny5]

And the biggest problem on King westbound from east of Church in the am peak is that (maybe because of bunching of east bound cars) lots of these cars get short-turned and re-enter west-bound service at Church - meaning that customers waiting at Jarvis, Sherbourne etc to get to the subway get VERY poor service. (Infrequent cars and VERY crowded ones.)

Dumping Parliament loop has turned out to be a terrible mistake.

 

[ShonTron]

I got to check out 4401 earlier this afternoon attending an unrelated city planning event.

Bicycle storage area:

Quad seating style:

 

[W. K. Lis]

Currently, 511 Bathurst uses 11± CLRVs, while 510 Spadina uses 29±, at different times of the day.

511 Bathurst will have its headway during the AM rush changed from 4m 15s to 5m 0s and during the PM from 4m 30s to 5m 30s. At other times, the headway remains unchanged.

510 Spadina will have its AM rush headway changed from 2m 30s to 3m 30s, while the PM rush goes from 2m 00s to 3m 23s. During the miday Monday to Friday, it goes from 1m 53s to 3m 15s. In the eveing Monday to Friday, it goes from 2m 15s to 3m 23s. Saturday daytime, its goes from 2m 00s to 3m 30s. Sunday daytime, goes from 2m 10s to 3m 15s.

By the end of 2013, the TTC could have 9 new Bombardier Outlook low-floor streetcars. By end the of 2014 another 34 would have arrived, to make it 43 on hand. More to come in the following years.

 

[doady]

Enough conjecture, let's close King Street to motorists and cyclists for a week and observe the consequences. I have a sneaking suspicion that the streetcars will still bunch up because that's the way the operators like it. The number of riders divided by the number of streetcars won't change so how will the service be improved?

Let me get this straight: you think bunching happens because streetcar operators purposesly fall behind schedule and be forced to deal with larger volumes of riders? No offense, but this is probably the most ridiculous and nonsensical thing I've ever read on these forums.

 

[calimehtar]

I wonder, of those people railing against shutting King St. down during rush hour, how many have ever actually needed to drive on King St. during rush hour.

 

[DSC]

I wonder, of those people railing against shutting King St. down during rush hour, how many have ever actually needed to drive on King St. during rush hour.

Much of the problem on King is illegal parking and stopping. A fast first step to improve rush-hour traffic (both cars and streetcars) might be to enforce the current rules, stop left turns and maybe extend the no parking, no stopping zones further west.

 

[DKsan]

I wonder, of those people railing against shutting King St. down during rush hour, how many have ever actually needed to drive on King St. during rush hour.

Who needs to actually drive on King during rush hour really though?

Emergency/police? Taxis? Deliveries?
Who else? I think Suzy who lives down the street from me in Brampton doesn't need to. She can take the GO and subway/streetcar/bus.

So who needs to?

I don't because that's just plain stupid.

 

[scar_resident]

Who needs to actually drive on King during rush hour really though?

Emergency/police? Taxis? Deliveries?
Who else? I think Suzy who lives down the street from me in Brampton doesn't need to. She can take the GO and subway/streetcar/bus.

So who needs to?

I don't because that's just plain stupid.

I think that people are grossly over estimating the number of people that drive into the core. Less than 25% of inbound vehicular traffic to the core is single occupant drivers, and that includes taxis and commercial vehicles. (from the Toronto Cordon Count). Once you factor in non-commercial vehicles used for business purposes (same day delivery couriers, people who are making sales calls) it might be 10 to 15%. Is banning this traffic really going to improve things that much?

 

[rbt]

I think that people are grossly over estimating the number of people that drive into the core. Less than 25% of inbound vehicular traffic to the core is single occupant drivers, and that includes taxis and commercial vehicles. (from the Toronto Cordon Count). Once you factor in non-commercial vehicles used for business purposes (same day delivery couriers, people who are making sales calls) it might be 10 to 15%. Is banning this traffic really going to improve things that much?

5% of traffic causes 90% of the congestion. If you can keep half a dozen people from getting stuck in an intersection blocking cross traffic, it can have a huge impact on total flow of both perpendicular and parallel streets.

So yes, converting 10% of cars on King into streetcar riders could have a large impact on traffic flow in that and adjacent corridors. Since much of the traffic on King originates from people living near King, this conversion (or more) is a possibility.

Of course, TTC has already botched the proposal so I'm not very confident that the trial will be successful and result in a permanent change.

 

[the lemur]

I think that people are grossly over estimating the number of people that drive into the core. Less than 25% of inbound vehicular traffic to the core is single occupant drivers, and that includes taxis and commercial vehicles. (from the Toronto Cordon Count). Once you factor in non-commercial vehicles used for business purposes (same day delivery couriers, people who are making sales calls) it might be 10 to 15%. Is banning this traffic really going to improve things that much?

The number of people driving into the core might be overestimated but it's still high enough to have an effect on congestion. I don't really see much same-day delivery being done at rush hour.

If we can't manage to restrict King to transit and police/emergency services, we should at least do everything else to improve the flow of traffic: strictly enforce the diamond lane (with cameras), no parking/stopping (including taxis), no left turns. Parking garages along King might be a problem, but we could have some kind of exemption system, e.g., you can drive on King between these hours but ONLY for garage entry/exit access, if you have the right sticker or whatever.

 

[scar_resident]

The number of people driving into the core might be overestimated but it's still high enough to have an effect on congestion. I don't really see much same-day delivery being done at rush hour.

If we can't manage to restrict King to transit and police/emergency services, we should at least do everything else to improve the flow of traffic: strictly enforce the diamond lane (with cameras), no parking/stopping (including taxis), no left turns. Parking garages along King might be a problem, but we could have some kind of exemption system, e.g., you can drive on King between these hours but ONLY for garage entry/exit access, if you have the right sticker or whatever.

My company was just one of many on King West and we asked for rush deliveries by 10am or needed and executed hard copy original contract picked up by end of day at least once a week. It happens more often than you think. Fedex and UPS are more visible because they are in commercial trucks. The same day guys are just driving regular vehicles. We have to acount for which streets the traffic will hit, it's not going to disappear.

 

[the lemur]

My company was just one of many on King West and we asked for rush deliveries by 10am or needed and executed hard copy original contract picked up by end of day at least once a week. It happens more often than you think. Fedex and UPS are more visible because they are in commercial trucks. The same day guys are just driving regular vehicles. We have to acount for which streets the traffic will hit, it's not going to disappear.

What about bike couriers? Are they carrying those types of contracts or deliveries as well?

We could still allow deliveries if they were also subject to the no stopping/no parking rules and used the many cross streets instead.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Mayor Rob Ford and his brother councillor Doug Ford trashed the idea of closing King St. to cars.

Read More: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...rashes_proposal_to_close_king_st_to_cars.html


.....

“You cannot shut down King St. for streetcars. We need to phase out streetcars,†said Mayor Ford, who would replace them with buses.

- Councillor Ford said if he were chair of the TTC, he would order more subway construction. If the city wants to keep streetcars for tourists, it should be confined to one street, perhaps Spadina Ave., he suggested. He told listeners the city is working on synchronizing traffic lights to improve traffic flow by 30 per cent. The brothers said if cars are banned from King St. during rush hour, drivers will end up cutting through neighbourhoods to get through town.

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