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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

robmausser

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Perhaps on the Eglinton Crosstown, but on the streetcar system? I just dont think it would work.

My hope with Eglinton is once the 3 car trains hit capacity, they can be moved to other LRT lines or retired, and a tram like this that is one tram from end to end of the platform can be tendered. Because you gain a lot of room by not having the empty space between cars.
 

turini2

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Perhaps on the Eglinton Crosstown, but on the streetcar system? I just dont think it would work.

My hope with Eglinton is once the 3 car trains hit capacity, they can be moved to other LRT lines or retired, and a tram like this that is one tram from end to end of the platform can be tendered. Because you gain a lot of room by not having the empty space between cars.
Agreed - I don't think these two would fit in the streets, fouling intersections and loops!
Budapest tram by CAF, 56m long & Sydney tram by Alstom, 67m long.
 

W. K. Lis

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turini2

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The loops were designed for a Peter Witt & trailer. Turns out, a loop would fit two PCC streetcars, two CLRV's, or one Flexity Outlook. That's why they have to redesign the loops (AKA enlarge) if they need to fit in two Flexity Outlook streetcars.
I guess similar to Boston's Type 10 "supercar" procurement - they're basically going to order the longest low floor vehicle they can physically fit on their infrastructure.
(they can now order low floor, as the Green Line Extension removes a 42ft/12.8m radius curve)
 

drum118

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The loops were designed for a Peter Witt & trailer. Turns out, a loop would fit two PCC streetcars, two CLRV's, or one Flexity Outlook. That's why they have to redesign the loops (AKA enlarge) if they need to fit in two Flexity Outlook streetcars.
That is why it time to go to duel ends and remove all loops as well add crossovers along routes. I can hear the bitching on lost seats, but you don't hear it from systems world wide including NA about it. You got buses with doors on both sides in NA with lost seats and no complaints about it.

Was joking on using 56m trams in Toronto to see what the reaction would be, but need to move 35m for the next fleet.
 

W. K. Lis

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I don't see that happening with a small order of only 60 cars. Maybe in 20 years when we order the next replacement bit even then I wouldn't hold my breath over it.
Actually, 60 streetcars by itself is large. Washington D.C.'s streetcar fleet is six (that's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6).

ION (Waterloo) has a light rail vehicle fleet of 14, with an option to buy 16 more.
 

W. K. Lis

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Not for a system that already has 204 cars built for an existing system. I don't expect them to completely rebuild the whole system for 60 cars.
They'll be rebuilding the Hillcrest Facility to become a car yard for some routes (IE. 512 and maybe 511).
 

EastYorkTTCFan

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They'll be rebuilding the Hillcrest Facility to become a car yard for some routes (IE. 512 and maybe 511).
Yes but that doesn't mean that they are going to get double ended streetcars and install double crossovers and get rid of the loops.

Hillcrest is going to be rebuilt because they don't have space in the existing Yards for anymore then we already have.
 

drum118

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4437 has finally been off loaded today after a week been here and 2 days at Hillcrest.
Actually, 60 streetcars by itself is large. Washington D.C.'s streetcar fleet is six (that's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6).
I saw them before they every went into service a year later.

The TIDE only has a few more cars that Washington. Then Detroit, Cincinnati, Milwaukee and Kanas City have about the same number as Washington.

Boston, Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis, Phoenix have far more cars than other systems , but not close to TTC

TTC has the largest streetcar fleet in NA and if you add the Metrolinx line cars to it, it will even be larger and close to what I stated at a TTC meeting over a decade ago that had eyes rolling. More so once extension get built requiring more cars.

Toronto has the most stops, mileage and routes and that will jump in 2022 and 2023 as well when the QQE extension is built along with Eglington east and west expansions.
 

drum118

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Yes but that doesn't mean that they are going to get double ended streetcars and install double crossovers and get rid of the loops.

Hillcrest is going to be rebuilt because they don't have space in the existing Yards for anymore then we already have.
That can be done in phases/route when a new fleet is order around 2045. You can built crossover now, but better start 5 years or so before the new fleet starts to arrive. You take a line out of service to build the stub end or disconnect the loop and connect to to the stub end. You can still use the duel end car on the loop line until it ready to be stub.

By then, the OS will become a thing from the past and be remove in phases until all the new cars are here and the current fleet is retire.

The plan has been all along to rebuilt Hillcrest for 511 and 512 cars as it cuts down on dead heading as well adding more storage area. Anymore cars will require another yard somewhere and TTC needs to look for that land now.
 

W. K. Lis

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That can be done in phases/route when a new fleet is order around 2045. You can built crossover now, but better start 5 years or so before the new fleet starts to arrive. You take a line out of service to build the stub end or disconnect the loop and connect to to the stub end. You can still use the duel end car on the loop line until it ready to be stub.

By then, the OS will become a thing from the past and be remove in phases until all the new cars are here and the current fleet is retire.

The plan has been all along to rebuilt Hillcrest for 511 and 512 cars as it cuts down on dead heading as well adding more storage area. Anymore cars will require another yard somewhere and TTC needs to look for that land now.

They don't need to use single-story, single-use (storing streetcars) buildings for the carbarns. Being electric, there are no CO₂ nor CO gases being generated by the streetcars. They could build second, third, and more above them. Can see using offices above them as sound barriers and residential above the offices.
 

drum118

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They don't need to use single-story, single-use (storing streetcars) buildings for the carbarns. Being electric, there are no CO₂ nor CO gases being generated by the streetcars. They could build second, third, and more above them. Can see using offices above them as sound barriers and residential above the offices.
Having buildings over carhouse and other things has been something I being calling for decades starting with schools.

Take a look at Riverside Square to see a 4 story Toyota car dealership that once took up a large area of space with a single story building. Not the first one in Toronto.

As I noted something ago, there are carhouse that also includes bus garages on different levels with parking below it for employees while in some cases bus garages are being put underground with development overtop of it.

Outside of Hillcrest finding land for another carhouse is very limit and who TTC build over it. There been a plan to build over TTC Davisville yard over 20 years plus and still has happen.

In Europe you will find various types of business at the based of residential buildings to the point some small Walmart stores are at the base of residential buildings in the US

We need to change our thinking that single story business needs to be stand alone as well transit use with development on top.

Hillcrest is not one of those places without razing it 100% and I don't see that happening at all.
 

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