TTC: Electric and alternative fuel buses

[Towered]

The ones that run downtown are manufactured by Proterra. Most of the seats face the aisle on those buses. At the rear, because of the size of the wheel housing, having aisle facing seats makes for a pretty narrow aisle.

Thanks for clarifying - I sat more near the middle.

 

[jcam]

Are TTC buying buses from all three manufacturers?

They essentially asked manufacturers to show them what they have. This will lead to them developing a spec for future bus procurements, which are planned to be zero-emissions only from 2025 onwards (probably ramping up a little earlier). The 3 manufacturers are each housed out of a different garage, but they want to get data on how each bus operates on the same routes, to they're being cycled around.

 

[smallspy]

The 3 manufacturers are each housed out of a different garage, but they want to get data on how each bus operates on the same routes, to they're being cycled around.

They're getting cycled around each route at each of the divisions that they are based at, but they will not be changing divisions, at least not under the current plans.

Especially since the BYD buses use a completely different charger and plug/port design.

Dan

 

[Towered]

I've been seeing more and more of them downtown lately - on the 505, the 6, and the 47 to be specific. How many of these e-buses are in service now? How many are they planning to order?

 

[APTA-2048]

I've been seeing more and more of them downtown lately - on the 505, the 6, and the 47 to be specific. How many of these e-buses are in service now? How many are they planning to order?

There’s 10 New Flyer electric buses in service through North York and Etobicoke, and there’s 10 Proterra electric buses in service through downtown and York. In total, the TTC will have 60 electric buses spread across the city. The rest are currently being delivered.

 

[kEiThZ]

What did you think of the seating arrangement on the Proterra? Most people I know don’t like it. Overheard a few passengers complain about it too.

That sucks to hear. They are the only e-bus that I think is truly built to simply drop in as a replacement for a diesel fleet.

There’s 10 New Flyer electric buses in service through North York and Etobicoke, and there’s 10 Proterra electric buses in service through downtown and York. In total, the TTC will have 60 electric buses spread across the city. The rest are currently being delivered.

Any idea when the deliveries end?

Have they come up with a process for future procurement? And this the criteria for this evaluation period published anywhere?

 

[Voltz]

That sucks to hear. They are the only e-bus that I think is truly built to simply drop in as a replacement for a diesel fleet.



Any idea when the deliveries end?

Have they come up with a process for future procurement? And this the criteria for this evaluation period published anywhere?

The latest reports are from the February TTC Board Meeting,

http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2020/February_25/Reports/7_TTC_Green_Bus_Program_Update.pdf

http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2020/February_25/Reports/Presentation_Item_7_TTC_Green_Bus_Program_Update.pdf

 

[rbt]

Does the BYD & Alexander Dennis deal impact other NewFlyer electric buses (such as the model TTC is receiving), or is it exclusively the ADL Enviro400EV unit?

IIRC, when TTC ordered the electric buses New Flyer did not own Alexander Dennis nor was BYD in partnership with that subbrand.

 

[APTA-2048]

That sucks to hear. They are the only e-bus that I think is truly built to simply drop in as a replacement for a diesel fleet.

Luckily, other more comfortable seating arrangements are available. However, the large wheelhousing remains a constant.

Any idea when the deliveries end?

Have they come up with a process for future procurement? And this the criteria for this evaluation period published anywhere?

All 25 Proterra and 25 New Flyer buses have been delivered. The more recent deliveries haven’t entered service yet. Worth noting, the last 15 Proterra buses and last 15 New Flyer buses have a rooftop charging option.

All ten BYD buses have been delivered. None have entered service, but they are currently testing and training with them.

 

[APTA-2048]

Does the BYD & Alexander Dennis deal impact other NewFlyer electric buses (such as the model TTC is receiving), or is it exclusively the ADL Enviro400EV unit?

IIRC, when TTC ordered the electric buses New Flyer did not own Alexander Dennis nor was BYD in partnership with that subbrand.

The BYD and ADL partnership is only for the Enviro200EV and Enviro400EV sold overseas. In North America, ADL partnered with Proterra for the Enviro500EV (of which GO Transit has taken two for trial).

New Flyer offers their own electric bus design in the Xcelsior. It does not use BYD batteries, axles, or motors.

 

[APTA-2048]

R32PW20792 - Request for Information - Battery Electric Buses and Hybrid Buses

TTC is looking for informatin about BEBs or HEVs that comply with the following requirements:

• Must be certified by Transport Canada to be registered and operated in Canada
• Must be a low-floor bus design between front & rear exit doors (minimum)
• Must be compliant with the Accessibility for Ontarians Act - AODA requirements and Canadian Standard Association (CSA) Standard D345
• Must have large on-board energy storage capacity and utilize overnight garage depot charging
• Must be capable of operating at ambient temperatures between -10° C and 35°C
• May be required to meet TTC Canadian Content requirements (25%) subject to funding

 

[kEiThZ]

All ten BYD buses have been delivered. None have entered service, but they are currently testing and training with them.

Are they getting more BYD buses or is that the total? I thought there were fielding 25 buses from each OEM?

Also, how long is this trial? Are they going to have a point where they report on the buses performance and spec out 100% BEV buses going forward?

 

[Steve X]

Are they getting more BYD buses or is that the total? I thought there were fielding 25 buses from each OEM?

Also, how long is this trial? Are they going to have a point where they report on the buses performance and spec out 100% BEV buses going forward?

They were suppose to get 20 from each but BYD can't deliver them on time so the additional ten was split between NFI and Proterra.

It's not a trial, they bought the buses permanently and would have to sell them off or scrap them if they don't want them.

The conversion to BEB won't happen anytime soon till the figure out how they can stay in full day service and their reliability needs to improve. We'll likely see HEV be ordered in the foreseeable future as TTC seem to be happy of the current Nova HEVs unlike the Orion VII HEVs.

 

[kEiThZ]

The conversion to BEB won't happen anytime soon till the figure out how they can stay in full day service and their reliability needs to improve.

What sorts of problems are they having? And is it across the board or with some models?

 

[APTA-2048]

What sorts of problems are they having? And is it across the board or with some models?

Anecdotes I heard from staff were issues with achieving the promised range. But this was back when they were rush hour only, and in the winter. Now you see a number of New Flyer and Proterra buses out almost every hour of the day.