TTC: Bloor Danforth Line 2 West Extension(s)

[drum118]

By the timethat tunnel is built, the Milton line will likely be EMUs anyway. And there's nothing stopping the trains coming from further out using the current CP line instead of the tunnel.



That's the idea. It would be 4-tracked. 2 for GO, 2 for TTC.



It wouldn't be under the CP tracks. It would turn north right after Dixie.

Are you saying that the section between Milton and KW/ Cambridge will be using EMU since its not on the radar at this time, other than the current fleet?

At the same time, CP is single track most of that distance and will require major rebuilding since it is in a open cut in the first place west of Milton. You can see this from the 401.

Where are you going to get the surface land using CP ROW when 4 track are plan to go in that area now with 2 for CP and 2 for GO, given the fact most places have only room for 3 in the first place?? The current cost to do this only to Milton is $1.3 Billion today for a 4 track system.

Why would you turn north at Dixie and how would you get to SQ One from there when you will miss the 2nd largest area of growth outside of MCC at Cooksville??

To have a 4 track tunnel, it will have to be a cut and cover that would see major destruction of everything in its path. Otherwise, you need a huge TBM to get 2 tracks in each tunnel and would see 2 tunnels being built.

If you plan on using the CP corridor to Sq One, Tunnel needs to start west of the Dundas overpass to get under the Cooksville Creek and the residential housing. If you are using DD cars, that will require a very large TBM and that not going to be a cheap tunnel dollar wise.

 

[Dan416]

I think following the GO train is pointless. If you're going to do both as I recommend, they'd follow completely different routes, although ending up in the same place.

Bloor-Danforth can follow the traditional Dundas (with a quick dip to Sherway) or alternatively follow Bloor.

GO train would continue on its existing track but be tunnelled between Cooksville and Erindale with a Square One/Mississauga Centre stop in-between.

I tried to come up with a decent Cooksville-Square One-Erindale alignment, but I'm afraid it's not as easy as it sounds.

 

[Amy Rose]

I think following the GO train is pointless. If you're going to do both as I recommend, they'd follow completely different routes, although ending up in the same place.

Bloor-Danforth can follow the traditional Dundas (with a quick dip to Sherway) or alternatively follow Bloor.

GO train would continue on its existing track but be tunnelled between Cooksville and Erindale with a Square One/Mississauga Centre stop in-between.

I tried to come up with a decent Cooksville-Square One-Erindale alignment, but I'm afraid it's not as easy as it sounds.

Its not totally pointless as GO trains will follow wide stop spacings, so in a way, it can act as express tracks, but I doubt it would get any use within this century, because its going through some suburban neighbourhoods and low to mid rises before nearing MCC

 

[doady]

Only corridor in Mississauga that can support subway is Dundas. That's where all the development will be. Bloor cannot support subway, not even close. And Hurontario already will get LRT. That means that subway to MCC is not a good idea. It should terminate at Hurontario-Dundas.

I prefer Dundas subway over Dundas LRT because Dundas west of Hurontario will never be able to support LRT anyways.

 

[Dan416]

Only corridor in Mississauga that can support subway is Dundas. That's where all the development will be. Bloor cannot support subway, not even close. And Hurontario already will get LRT. That means that subway to MCC is not a good idea. It should terminate at Hurontario-Dundas.

I prefer Dundas subway over Dundas LRT because Dundas west of Hurontario will never be able to support LRT anyways.

That part is definitely true. You've almost convinced me lol.

 

[Marko]

The stretch of Dundas between Confederation and say, Dunwin, will end up having far more redevolment and intensification than any other part of Mississauga. I can see something not unlike Yonge street between Sheppard and Finch (or up to Steeles).

Cookstown (Hurontario & Dundas) is already a very busy transit hub and with gradual redevelopment of all those single and double floor commercial plazas, it will remain a very string pedestrian and retail area - only with a whole lot more residents.

I do think that the Hurontario LRT somewhat mitigates the need to take a potential Dundas subway up to Square One. The ideal would be a loop that connects the Bloor-Dundas line to a potential Eglinton line - but since Eglinton is going LRT, then perhaps doing LRT the entire way - even Dundas - is the way to go, but with an attempt to bury as much of the Dundas stretch as can be afforded. There may appear to be room now, but adding 150,000 residents along that stretch isn't out of the question, even more.

I also think Dixie will see a lot of redevelopment between Rathburn and Queensway. There are an awful lot of under-used properties, rental townhomes and commercial plazas that could see the same treatment as Dundas. I doubt it ever justifies any higher order transit, but perhaps one day there could be a Burnhamthorpe-Dixie-Lakeshore-Hurontario loop of sorts, connecting Square One, Rockwood Mall (redeveloped & intensified area), Dixie Mall (redeveloped & intensified area) and across to Port Credit along Lakeshore, which will also see growth. That, or a B'thorpe-Dixie-Dundas-Confederation loop, with an extension of the existing streetcars from Long Branch across Lakeshore into Port Credit.

As for whether or not Rob Ford would support it - who cares? It won't happen under his watch anyways. There was talk many years ago about a Bloor extension but Hazel didn't want Toronto's homeless coming to hang out at Square One. It could have been done a long time ago is Mississauga ever came to the table with funds to help it along - which could have been secured through development fees from properties more specifically along the line. It could still be done that way along Dundas actually, considering the redevelopment opportunities that exist along that stretch.

 

[sixrings]

I would suggest building above ground LRT from kipling to hurontario. The reason I am suggesting above ground LRT is because , its cheaper then a subway, its on dundas (so asthetics shouldnt matter), and finally when it gets to hurontario it could interline until it terminates at SQ1. I also the think it makes more sense for the transfer to be at kipling in Toronto. it seems Odd the other way that would have a subway randomly terminate at hurontario just to transfer there onto another cities transit. If Sauga is choosing LRT for hurontario and places potentially like Eglinton then it should be consistant on dundas at well... Its just the type of LRT that should be different.

 

[Dan416]

I think it should be subway to reduce transfers. A subway would encourage more dense redevelopment.

It is unfortunate Mississauga politicians they can't see the benefit to a subway to Mississauga. I wish we weren't wasting money on the Mississauga BRT. It's usefulness is doubtful, at least to me.

 

[sixrings]

lrt interlining would have the same amount as a transfers as a subways extension that randomly ends at hurontario.. I dont agree with Rob ford alot but I can see how city centres located around malls could become viable hubs in the future ( the far future, but the future non the less). I think he should move SHeppard to vic park and when theres enough demand warden and when theres enough demand again more exapansion. AS for mississauga. Hazel thinks if she puts in a subway more people will commute out of her city for jobs. She was once a mayor who was ok with being a bed room city mayor. However she has a different motivation now. She wants her city to become its own city. A Subway might be counterproductive. Although she might get a few torontonians transiting out to sauga, she realizes its more likely she will lose more sauga residents to toronto jobs. AS a result I would agree with a web of LRT lines and BRT lines. Besides sauga has many roads that are three lanes in each direction. These roads are perfect for LRT ROWs.

 

[Tuscani01]

I think it should be subway to reduce transfers. A subway would encourage more dense redevelopment.

It is unfortunate Mississauga politicians they can't see the benefit to a subway to Mississauga. I wish we weren't wasting money on the Mississauga BRT. It's usefulness is doubtful, at least to me.

Im a fan of the BRT as it is the quickest way to connect the outskirts of the City to the Centre. Its going to improve travel times between Meadowvale, City Centre and the Airport Corporate Centre, as well as transit times for many of the bus routes that serve MCC. Its effectively an above ground subway route that allows other routes to use its infrastructure to reduce travel times across the board. I think it will end up pulling many more Mississauga residents onto transit.

 

[dunkalunk]

Here is basically what kind of transit connections I'd like to see in Missisauga:

As you can probably see, I've extended the Bloor-Danforth Subway to Sherway Gardens, Extended the Eglinton Crosstown LRT to MCC, and extended the 501 Streetcar/Waterfront West LRT to Port Credit.

I've also disconnected the Airport Skytrain so in can be run by the GTAA independently of any other agencies, and so that no transfers would have to be forced on people using the Eglinton Crosstown on a daily basis. I've also omitted the Union-Pearson Air Rail for clarity.

I'd also really like to see regular 15 minute DMU service on the Milton line between Union and Lisgar. There would be no need to build another Rapid Transit line along the Dundas corridor if this type of service existed. And while we're at it, why can't we be running DMUs/EMUs on ALL GO lines?

Of course, in the meantime, on-street express buses, curbside HOV lanes, and signal priority are good stop-gap measures in the meantime, but if anything is going to be built off-road, it really should be LRT unless there is room for both to run in the same corridor.

 

[khris]

I think instead of an extension, it would be wiser to have Mississauga build it's own subway on Hurontario, and skip the LRT completely. Maybve have LRT for more northern and southern portions. Dundas to Eglinton could support a subway for sure. Small line yes, but you gotta start somewhere. Yonge line was small at one time too.

 

[gweed123]

I think instead of an extension, it would be wiser to have Mississauga build it's own subway on Hurontario, and skip the LRT completely. Maybve have LRT for more northern and southern portions. Dundas to Eglinton could support a subway for sure. Small line yes, but you gotta start somewhere. Yonge line was small at one time too.

If that's the line of thinking you're on, may be better off to just tunnel the central section of the Hurontario LRT instead. 2 fewer transfers, same speeds.

 

[drum118]

I think instead of an extension, it would be wiser to have Mississauga build it's own subway on Hurontario, and skip the LRT completely. Maybve have LRT for more northern and southern portions. Dundas to Eglinton could support a subway for sure. Small line yes, but you gotta start somewhere. Yonge line was small at one time too.

How can you justify a subway on Hurontario St when there will be less than 100,000 using the line by 2040? Given the fact that only 10% of the ridership is north of Bristol and 2% south of the Queensway, how can you justify as subway for those area?

The subway will only be supported by density between Dundas and Eglinton only in 75 years. Now, where do you find the land to build a carhouse for this line?

A subway to carry 5,000ppd fall well short of standards as well having to build 3 carhouses for the whole line.

Why are you forcing riders to make 3 transfer going from Port Credit to Brampton?

I have enough issues to justify a subway on Dundas at this point and never made the recommendation to do one on Hurontario in my 2002/3 report. I did call for a monorail on Hurontario.

 

[drum118]

Here is basically what kind of transit connections I'd like to see in Missisauga:

As you can probably see, I've extended the Bloor-Danforth Subway to Sherway Gardens, Extended the Eglinton Crosstown LRT to MCC, and extended the 501 Streetcar/Waterfront West LRT to Port Credit.

I've also disconnected the Airport Skytrain so in can be run by the GTAA independently of any other agencies, and so that no transfers would have to be forced on people using the Eglinton Crosstown on a daily basis. I've also omitted the Union-Pearson Air Rail for clarity.

I'd also really like to see regular 15 minute DMU service on the Milton line between Union and Lisgar. There would be no need to build another Rapid Transit line along the Dundas corridor if this type of service existed. And while we're at it, why can't we be running DMUs/EMUs on ALL GO lines?

Of course, in the meantime, on-street express buses, curbside HOV lanes, and signal priority are good stop-gap measures in the meantime, but if anything is going to be built off-road, it really should be LRT unless there is room for both to run in the same corridor.

Unless you plan on upgrading the current roller-coaster ride at the airport, it will never be able to operate as per your map. I prefer to see LRT in this section.

Until the $1.2 Billion is found to upgrade the Milton Line as well GO increasing its existing train crews by a factor of 70, you are not going to get the 15 minute service you want.

What good is the Brown line BRT for when there is next to no ridership or density on it now to justify an express bus even after the Renforth Gateway opens in 2013? Where is it going east to as noted on your map??

No problem with the Eglinton LRT as I have call for that back in 2003/4 on the current BRT plan.

Not having a line on Dundas either as an BRT now with LRT later on is a huge mistake since Dundas can support more density than MCC only east of Hurontario. West of Hurontario will be only an BRT going out to Burlington. I prefer to see LRT from Day One. Carhouse would be in the Dixie Rd area, as there is land there today for it.

All lines of GO lines within the current system should be EMU's. Going outside it to KW, Cambridge and NF should be DMU's if there is track space, otherwise you have to use the current fleet. There is nothing stopping GO from having DD DMU's/EMU's.

You are going to need a BRT on Dixie Rd as well Erin Mills going into Brampton. There is plans for an BRT on Derry Rd, but ridership would be poor even 20 years out.

Unless the track gauge is change for Mississauga LRT, which I don't see happening, the 501 will not see PC.