TTC and Universities

[Disparishun]

Here's my plan. I call it the T-Pass. Every Toronto citizen will have $450 added to their tax bill annually and will receive a non-transferable year-long Metropass. If they wish, they can exchange it for a Mississauga or York annual pass, or a $480 credit on GO transit. Having an option will not be an option.

Why not add it to property tax and make it transferable?

By the way:

Glad you bring that up... The U-Pass will give students the option of a $60 GO Transit credit/month or a monthly YRT pass. Problem solved.

Problem solved for YRT, but there is no advantage and a possible disadvantage for students who take GO -- all they're really doing is exchanging their pay-as-you-go monthly $60 GO spend for a mandatory monthly $60 GO spend. The GO option should really be giving them a $90 or $100 or whatever the TTC and YRT regular-to-U-Pass-discount ratio is. Bad form, GO Transit!

 

[RedRocket191]

The GO option should really be giving them a $90 or $100 or whatever the TTC and YRT regular-to-U-Pass-discount ratio is. Bad form, GO Transit!

Then we would be back to the cries of unfairness. "If Joey and I are being forced to pay $60 a month, why does Joey get $100 worth of benefit and I don't?", they would say. Then, we're no better off then we are now in terms of public opinion.

I don't disagree with you, but I think that the only way a U-Pass will work is with a one-sized-fits-all attitude, and applying that attitude to our system will always result in someone losing and someone winning.

 

[Disparishun]

Then we would be back to the cries of unfairness. "If Joey and I are being forced to pay $60 a month, why does Joey get $100 worth of benefit and I don't?", they would say. Then, we're no better off then we are now in terms of public opinion.

I don't follow.

 

[RedRocket191]

Essentially, if different students get different value out of their U-Pass for the same price, we'll still be dealing with the cries of unfairness.

I believe that everything has to be equal. If GO riders get $100 off, TTC riders should get $100 off.

 

[Disparishun]

Essentially, if different students get different value out of their U-Pass for the same price, we'll still be dealing with the cries of unfairness.

Huh? If the GO option were giving students a $90 or $100 or whatever the TTC and YRT regular-to-U-Pass-discount ratio is, then the effect would indeed be to give different students the same value out of their U-Pass for the same price.

It would mean bringing the GO value students get out of their U-Pass, in line with the TTC and YRT value students get out of their U-Pass. Surely you'd expect cries of fairness, not the cries of unfairness that the existing disparity justifies.

 

[Chuck]

I would support adding $480 to my annual taxes ($40 per month) if it meant unlimited TTC. I would use the TTC twice as often and drive half as much if the subway was free. Why not take it a step farther and address zones? Implement a tax of $30 per month if you live in the inner city, $40 if you live in midtown-ish areas, and $50 per month for the suburbs.

 

[RedRocket191]

Huh? If the GO option were giving students a $90 or $100 or whatever the TTC and YRT regular-to-U-Pass-discount ratio is, then the effect would indeed be to give different students the same value out of their U-Pass for the same price.

It would mean bringing the GO value students get out of their U-Pass, in line with the TTC and YRT value students get out of their U-Pass. Surely you'd expect cries of fairness, not the cries of unfairness that the existing disparity justifies.

Perhaps the solution is simply to get a corporate sponsor and have them help pay for a free GTA-wide U-pass good for 416, 905 and all of GO. I'm certain we won't have any difficulty finding a company willing to advertise to students.

 

[Disparishun]

Perhaps the solution is simply to get a corporate sponsor and have them help pay for a free GTA-wide U-pass good for 416, 905 and all of GO. I'm certain we won't have any difficulty finding a company willing to advertise to students.

That's sort of a hammer for a fly, isn't it? The solution to bringing the GO non-discount in line with the TTC/YRT discount is to get GO to give an equivalent discount. It's not that complicated.

 

[RedRocket191]

I do think that you have a very good idea. I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear before. However, I just think it'll be as difficult or even more difficult to sell to the students.

The issue here is balancing equity of payment made and equity of services received. Your idea (services received) is much more fair, but the other side of the coin (payment made) is where the opposition from the students comes from.

 

[Disparishun]

The issue here is balancing equity of payment made and equity of services received. Your idea (services received) is much more fair, but the other side of the coin (payment made) is where the opposition from the students comes from.

I think we're talking about different things -- you about the popularity of the mandatory-purchase scheme, me about what's folded into that scheme. Obviously, a better GO discount would make it a bit more popular, because more bang for the buck. But you're right, I don't think it would move student support much one way or the other. The critical component people think about is the $60 figure, period.

I must say, it is surprising to hear about UTSC leading the way on this -- they are not exactly the best transit-served location! Anyway, it will be interesting to see what happens.

 

[RedRocket191]

I must say, it is surprising to hear about UTSC leading the way on this -- they are not exactly the best transit-served location! Anyway, it will be interesting to see what happens.

That's the biggest irony I've seen all year.

 

[RedRocket191]

It appears that UTSC students have rejected the U-Pass offer.

Unofficial results for full time students are 1674 nay, 622 yay.

This is unfortunate, but the students have spoken.

It will be interesting to see how other schools respond to this, but I have faith that the downtown schools will be much more receptive to the idea.

 

[dowlingm]

what if a student uses both?

http://www.toronto.ca/ttc/fares.htm#gta

 

[Chuck]

Why does the TTC have to see students as a source of revenue? Just write them off as a revenue source, and let them use their student card as a transit pass for an annual fee of $100. If the rest of fares had to increase by 25 cents per ride in order to achieve that, it would go down as the first fare increase that I actually support - and I'm not a student anymore and would in no way benefit.

Furthermore, university students are much more deserving of a student pass than high school students. University students often don't live at home, actually have to pay tuition to go to school, often don't work in order to focus on their studies, and often have no financial support from their parents. At minimum, the TTC's basic student fares should be extended to all university students.

 

[dowlingm]

Putting $480 on property tax would only provide one pass per property tax household. In my house that would be fine, but it would likely mean I couldn't claim the federal transit tax credit. Also, how would it work for renters who pay property tax indirectly? I could see organisations like OCAP getting geared up since it would essentially be a flat tax.