Trinity Bellwoods Park to face alcohol crackdown

[TOareaFan]

Drinking a beer in the park doesn't make you a criminal,

It kinda does.....if the place you are doing (eg. Ontario) has deemed it to be against the law. I like a drink, and generally speaking, don't mind people drinking in public....but we should not hide from the fact that it is against the law and we can't just pick and choose which laws we abide by and which ones we don't.

By all means get the law changed....if there is enough public support for it the politicians will listen and will find a way....but until then, sorry, drinking beer in a park does make you a criminal (albeit likely a minor, non threatening, one).

 

[picard102]

Yes, it's illegal to smoke in a lot of parks and beaches in Ontario now.

eg. http://ottawa.ca/en/residents/public-health/healthy-living/smoke-free-regulations

The City of Ottawa has adopted amendments to its by-laws to provide for more smoke-free spaces.

The following spaces are now smoke free:

All outdoor areas on municipal properties including parks, playgrounds, beaches, sports fields, and outdoor areas around City facilities
ByWard and Parkdale Market stands
Outdoor restaurant, bar, and food premise patios

The new smoke-free regulations apply 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

Forgot this was "UrbanOttawa.ca".

 

[JayBeeGooner]

but until then, sorry, drinking beer in a park does make you a criminal (albeit likely a minor, non threatening, one).

I don't think public drinking falls under the Criminal Code, so you're not really a "criminal".

 

[ShonTron]

It kinda does.....if the place you are doing (eg. Ontario) has deemed it to be against the law. I like a drink, and generally speaking, don't mind people drinking in public....but we should not hide from the fact that it is against the law and we can't just pick and choose which laws we abide by and which ones we don't.

By all means get the law changed....if there is enough public support for it the politicians will listen and will find a way....but until then, sorry, drinking beer in a park does make you a criminal (albeit likely a minor, non threatening, one).

Not a criminal. Just like speeding on the 401 doesn't make you a criminal or rolling through a stop sign at a minor intersection. There's a difference between crimes and minor offenses such as having a beer in public.

I'm all for liberalizing the rules around public consumption of alcohol, provided that rowdiness can still be dealt with. But the laws exist partially so that alcohol sales and consumption can be controlled (going back to the post-prohibition era) and partially so that parks can be enjoyed by all. I believe that the language should be changed to allow modest, discrete alcohol consumption (say wine at a picnic or a beer at the beach) where enforcement would be based upon orders (by police, parks staff, etc) to dispose of open alcoholic beverages and then not complying.

By-laws regarding smoking in parks is still up to the municipalities. I'm not aware of such a by-law in Toronto. (It's a bit odd that one substance that is banned for sale to those under 19 and known to have serious long-term health effects is okay in public spaces, in front of the children, but another substance that is banned for sale to those under 19 and only in excessive amounts is known to have serious long-term health effects is clamped down upon.)

 

[Eug]

Forgot this was "UrbanOttawa.ca".

By-laws regarding smoking in parks is still up to the municipalities. I'm not aware of such a by-law in Toronto. (It's a bit odd that one substance that is banned for sale to those under 19 and known to have serious long-term health effects is okay in public spaces, in front of the children, but another substance that is banned for sale to those under 19 and only in excessive amounts is known to have serious long-term health effects is clamped down upon.)

It's being discussed for Toronto, but not yet implemented. However, my point was that it has already been implemented in many other municipalities in Ontario. I welcome something similar for Toronto.

 

[Silence&Motion]

I think the quoted police officer says it all: "We want the regular folks of the neighbourhood to be able to use these parks...Making the park a favourite destination for children and families is a huge issue"

So basically, unless you are a home owner with 2.5 children, and a backyard where you can drink your beer, you're not considered "regular folk". The childless, apartment renting "downtown elites" who might want to enjoy a bottle of wine with their picnic have no place in Toronto's parks!

To the people who think every city by-law should be enforced 100%, do you also believe that every kid who plays street hockey, every person walking in a park after curfew (yes, apparently park curfews actually exist on the books), and every restaurant that hangs flowerpots over their property line should be ticketed as well?

Or perhaps these by-laws exist so that police have recourse to punish someone when they happen to be "disturbing the peace" rather than simply "breaking the rules".

 

[vic]

Smoking

There's already a partial smoking ban in Toronto parks:
http://www.toronto.ca/health/tobaccofree/legislation.htm

Smoking is not allowed within a 9 metre or 29.5 foot radius of play areas.
This includes the surrounding edge of any playground safety surface or playground equipment, and the surrounding edge of wading pool basins or safety surfaces of splash pads.

 

[picard102]

To the people who think every city by-law should be enforced 100%, do you also believe that every kid who plays street hockey, every person walking in a park after curfew (yes, apparently park curfews actually exist on the books), and every restaurant that hangs flowerpots over their property line should be ticketed as well?

If you're caught, then yes. Otherwise act to get the law changed, or do so discreetly so you dont attract police attention.

 

[christiesplits]

I hate to be Old Man MJL, but I have to agree with the crackdown. Something about Trinity Bellwoods brings the worst out of people. In fairness, I do frequent the park more than other known BYOB spots like Ashbridges Bay or Toronto Islands, but I have seen one too many alcohol induced scuffles and 20-somethings getting liquored up and playing tag in the playground.

 

[Johnny Au]

One of the conditions of High Park being transferred to the city over a century ago was to ban the sale and consumption of alcohol there.

High Park is among the last secular areas in North America to continue being under Prohibition (aside from some First Nations reserves).

There is some enforcement in High Park.

Yes, Trinity-Bellwoods Park is only a few kilometres from High Park.

 

[W. K. Lis]

It could have been worse. Some kids could be selling lemonade, and we can't have that.

 

[Silence&Motion]

If you're caught, then yes. Otherwise act to get the law changed, or do so discreetly so you dont attract police attention.

The city has passed thousands of by-laws with the intended purpose being used with discretion. I'd hate to live in the world where the police held everyone to every single by-law all the time.

Take the by-law against street hockey, for instance. It's there so when someone complains about disruptive kids blocking cars, the cops will (1) have legal guidelines telling them who is in the right (the hockey players or the cranky neighbour) and (2) have legal jurisdiction to tell the hockey players to stop, or even impose a penalty like a fine. However, you seem to be suggesting by implication that cops should be keeping an eye out for any street hockey players during their patrols, and leap at the chance to fine anyone they catch, as if there's no grey areas. By-laws are often planned to be used specifically for grey areas.

 

[khris]

It kinda does.....if the place you are doing (eg. Ontario) has deemed it to be against the law. I like a drink, and generally speaking, don't mind people drinking in public....but we should not hide from the fact that it is against the law and we can't just pick and choose which laws we abide by and which ones we don't.

By all means get the law changed....if there is enough public support for it the politicians will listen and will find a way....but until then, sorry, drinking beer in a park does make you a criminal (albeit likely a minor, non threatening, one).

This is exactly the response I was going to write, so I'll just +1 this!

 

[picard102]

Take the by-law against street hockey, for instance. It's there so when someone complains about disruptive kids blocking cars, the cops will (1) have legal guidelines telling them who is in the right (the hockey players or the cranky neighbour) and (2) have legal jurisdiction to tell the hockey players to stop, or even impose a penalty like a fine.

Take the law against drinking in the park, for instance. People have complained about disruptive behaviour arising from the breaking of this law, the cops will (1) have a legal guideline telling them who is right (Those breaking the law or those complaining) and (2) have legal jurisdiction to impose a penalty like a fine.

 

[Silence&Motion]

Take the law against drinking in the park, for instance. People have complained about disruptive behaviour arising from the breaking of this law, the cops will (1) have a legal guideline telling them who is right (Those breaking the law or those complaining) and (2) have legal jurisdiction to impose a penalty like a fine.

But we are not debating this particular case. We are debating the statement made earlier that all people found drinking in a park should be ticketed. And the more general statement, also made earlier, than anyone caught by police breaking a by-law (any by-law) should also be fined.

I'm all for fining rowdy, drunken people who are causing a scene. However, I am against fining people for no other reason than they are breaking a rule. In fact, if the police could rely on more specific laws about disorderly conduct, that would be better than relying on a anti-drinking law. Although I'm sure having a smoking gun, like a bottle of beer, makes it easier for police to step in.