44 North
Senior Member
I'd have more faith in Futurama's Suicide Booths seeing the light of day than this. Maybe they can come in handy for Hyperloop's investors...
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TransPod Hyperloop
- Thread starter SaugeenJunction
- Start date
I'd have more faith in Futurama's Suicide Booths seeing the light of day than this. Maybe they can come in handy for Hyperloop's investors...
SaugeenJunction
Senior Member
New video showing off a potential Toronto Hyperloop "Union Station" on the Unilever Lands/East Harbour.
PDF detailing more on the tech: https://transpodhyperloop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/TransPod-infrastructure_EN_July-17.pdf
Also, here is an article on it from Techvibes: https://techvibes.com/2017/07/13/hy...le-the-speed-of-proposed-high-speed-rail-plan
PDF detailing more on the tech: https://transpodhyperloop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/TransPod-infrastructure_EN_July-17.pdf
Also, here is an article on it from Techvibes: https://techvibes.com/2017/07/13/hy...le-the-speed-of-proposed-high-speed-rail-plan
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AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
It sure is pretty, but given how immature the technology is, shouldn't the focus be demonstrating viability instead of thin-air stations where there is no planning accommodation for?
AoD
AoD
SaugeenJunction
Senior Member
I couldn't agree more.
cplchanb
Senior Member
Transpod sure is naive about their prospects calling HSR "obsolete" when theres only 2 countries that even has Maglev. Their $10B estimate is also potentially flawed as it probably is done under the most laboratory of conditions
and not real world where Nimbys are amok, unions charge relentlessly and politicians have field days flip flopping back and forth for votes. Sure its a good idea, but dont build it at the expense of what is really required which is a convenient and reliable rail (electrified) network.
and not real world where Nimbys are amok, unions charge relentlessly and politicians have field days flip flopping back and forth for votes. Sure its a good idea, but dont build it at the expense of what is really required which is a convenient and reliable rail (electrified) network.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Man. Elon Musk succeeded beyond his wildest imagination. Hyperloop was an effort on his part to try and kill the California HSR, lest it threaten Tesla's home state sales. And now Hyperloop is threatening HSRs all over the world. He's not the first to propose evacuated tube transport. Won't be the last.
His back of the napkin proposal was incredibly naïve on so many fronts. And cost estimates are ridiculously low, given that it's basically Maglev in a vacuum tube. Let's see what the costs come to when they actually have to build a system subjected to real world considerations including regulators imposing acceleration profiles so that people aren't puking in those pods. Let's see what it costs when they actually build into the cities instead of out in the boonies. And finally let's see what it costs when it has to go beyond the Musk calculated capacity of 840 riders per hour (which goes even lower with more intermediate stops) with two minute intervals.
His back of the napkin proposal was incredibly naïve on so many fronts. And cost estimates are ridiculously low, given that it's basically Maglev in a vacuum tube. Let's see what the costs come to when they actually have to build a system subjected to real world considerations including regulators imposing acceleration profiles so that people aren't puking in those pods. Let's see what it costs when they actually build into the cities instead of out in the boonies. And finally let's see what it costs when it has to go beyond the Musk calculated capacity of 840 riders per hour (which goes even lower with more intermediate stops) with two minute intervals.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
I'm absolutely no engineer and don't know if it will ever work or be economically practical but I applaud Musk. The world needs more Musks. If we are going to try to solve the transportation needs of a 21st century world with 7.5 billion people then we need to think completely outside the box. We needs minds and imaginations that are willing to turn every preconceived paradigm on it's head. The status quo or incremental improvements is not going to do the trick.
Things like Hyperloop may turn out to be farcical but all you need is one revolutionary idea to change the world and the more Elon Musks there are the more chances of that 1 in 100 becoming a reality. You will NEVER get ideas like this from Siemen's, Bombardier etc because they have vested interests in making sure that such revolutionary change never happens. Just 200 years ago the idea of putting wagons on steel tracks would have gotten you committed but here we are. Only a century ago the idea of hundreds of millions of people every year flying in huge steel drums all over the planet would have been the stuff of fairy tales but look at our planet's huge air transportation system today.To move the world better in the 18th century, getting faster horses wasn't going to be the answer. It required completely revolutionary thought to see that first train or plane.
Things like Hyperloop may turn out to be farcical but all you need is one revolutionary idea to change the world and the more Elon Musks there are the more chances of that 1 in 100 becoming a reality. You will NEVER get ideas like this from Siemen's, Bombardier etc because they have vested interests in making sure that such revolutionary change never happens. Just 200 years ago the idea of putting wagons on steel tracks would have gotten you committed but here we are. Only a century ago the idea of hundreds of millions of people every year flying in huge steel drums all over the planet would have been the stuff of fairy tales but look at our planet's huge air transportation system today.To move the world better in the 18th century, getting faster horses wasn't going to be the answer. It required completely revolutionary thought to see that first train or plane.
rbt
Senior Member
Hyperloop is a prototype for a system that will be necessary (enclosed from elements) where Musk intends to retire. His rather odd collection of infrastructure and transportation assets only make sense when you recall interviews in which he said he intends to live on Mars for a non-trivial time period. Hyperloop is a reasonable design in a low pressure atmosphere with massive amounts of fine dust (fewer moving parts, mostly enclosed both above/below ground, vacuum seal from pod doors to station wall).
It won't kill HSR but it will probably get deployed somewhere for a production test system at a substantial discount.
That said, California's HSR project is doing a fine job of killing itself.
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Urban Sky
Senior Member
ssiguy2
Senior Member
Musk has done the world a huge favour by presenting the Hyperloop............he has added real impetus to the idea that the world needs a complete revolutionary in it's transportation needs if we are to move the masses in the 21st century and beyond. He has helped change the conversation and people's ideas that the tried and true is not necessarily the best option.
APTA-2048
Senior Member
You mean like his ridiculous "car subway"?
Urban Sky
Senior Member
Absolutely not (and you should still watch the video I posted). He has made any discussions over badly needed HSR projects impossible because everyone rather believes a billionaire (with significant business interests staked against rail) that "conventional rail is a thing of the past and in 5 years everyone will travel in Hyperloops" than engineers and scientists (who dare to point out boring things like that the laws of physics cannot be re-written by "completely rethinking intercity transportation"). Just wait until the Hyperloop-Hype erodes public support for the Ontario Liberals' HSR project...^^
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Johnny Au
Senior Member
I knew it.
The Chinese Elevated Bus concept is much more feasible than the TransPod Hyperloop in that a functioning prototype of the elevated bus exists (and it was a fraud).
The Chinese Elevated Bus concept is much more feasible than the TransPod Hyperloop in that a functioning prototype of the elevated bus exists (and it was a fraud).
kEiThZ
Superstar
I'm a fan of some Musk ideas. My gains in Tesla stock (I got in when it was in the $30s and cashed out in the low $200s) paid for my wedding.
That's cause they have shareholders who insist on deploying capital where they can get a return. Incidentally, Musk hasn't put a dime of his own into Hyperloop. He handed out the "tech" (his napkin drawings) for all to use. And left the actual engineering to everybody else. Now, they are are all running around building test tracks and claiming revolutionary change is around the corner when not a single one of them has actually demonstrated anything close to system feasibility. Worse, none of them look to be on a path to do so. At least not without significant government funding. And at that point, government engineers have to ask if the concept is worth researching, which of course it isn't. Because any engineer will tell you the premise is simply not worth the risk (especially with the required margin of safety for a service that will regularly have people in it and around it), let alone the massive R&D. Moreover, the risk mitigation required would have such onerous operational regulations that the costs will increase tremendously.
As an example, in the aerospace sector the factor of safety is generally around 2.0. But if the fuselage fails on an airplane, it's people on that airplane and maybe a few more on the ground who die. If there's a rupture of the tube in the Hyperloop, every single pod is going to suddenly experience supersonic shock it wasn't designed for (along with expansion waves and normal shocks reflecting between the pod and the tube walls) with follow on structural loads on the pod/capsule and possibly the tube itself if the pod collides or scrapes the walls. The risk is so much higher. Regulators would demand factors of safety substantially higher than for individual aircraft. And the cost? I can't even imagine.
Heck, people are already putting together decent first order ROMEs based on some very basic considerations, that show how wrong Musk was:
https://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013...op-really-cost-6-billion-critics-say-no/?_r=0
If he wasn't lying, he was certainly naive. Especially on assumptions around land acquisition, possible public opposition along the route and regulator imposition.
It's too bad government agencies can't lie about numbers like Musk and his fanatical followers can. Read this on how Musk manipulated his Hyperloop proposal to make it cheaper:
https://ggwash.org/view/32078/musks-hyperloop-math-doesnt-add-up
kEiThZ
Superstar
Probably applies to Canada too:
https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/11/15218152/hyperloop-one-us-launch-dc-infrastructure-problems
You'll notice Hyperloop gets less attention in Europe. They already have working high speed rail. So the charms of snake oil salesmen aren't as effective.
https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/11/15218152/hyperloop-one-us-launch-dc-infrastructure-problems
You'll notice Hyperloop gets less attention in Europe. They already have working high speed rail. So the charms of snake oil salesmen aren't as effective.