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boiler2000
Guest
^ That illustrates perfectly why we need zones. You shouldn't have to pay almost $3 to take a streetcar a few blocks, but it's pretty cheap for a trip from southern Etobicoke to north-east Scarb.
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gboykovekin
Guest
But I do think that it serves a purpose in increasing pedestrian traffic, which probably helps retailers and other street activities. It'd be best if there was a nice compromise between solutions. Though I personally have a year-round bus pass in London, ON, I rarely use it and would rather walk and/or cycle. Maybe it's just the type of person I am and would rather be in motion than wait.
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rbtaylor
Guest
Why not?
Work out the fee for taking a cab or driving (include parking) and you will probably find that both of those options are above $3.
Using your feet or pedal power are the only options that are cheaper but neither of those gets you out of the weather.
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wyliepoon
Guest
How about only using zone fares (or in this case fare by distance) for the subway? I don't really see how zonal fares could be enforced on buses, even with an electronic fare card. I think all bus fares should remain flat, but subway fares could be charged by distance. That would also mean no more free transfers between the surface routes and the subway.
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EnviroTO
Guest
I agree that it makes sense for subway fares to be treated slightly different if a graded fare system is put in place. I think any zone or graded fare system should take into account that local busses for long distances are not convenient, subways and rocket busses are more convenient, and GO trains and busses are the most convenient and pricing should be based on that increased value.
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spmarshall
Guest
In a way, why should one pay more for GO Transit, subway or an express bus if it is fare-by-distance? The subway is the cheapest to run in a way because it is so efficient at moving enormous numbers of people?
London's fare system is one fare for all modes, including regional rail, per zone - take your pick of tube, tram/DRL, bus or mainline regional rail. Though I see a point of charging a premium for commuter rail here, as long as it is an extra fare above a regular fare, with free transfer to local services and upgrade fare from local services, like many other places. And if I was in charge, I would charge for parking at GO lots, not a huge amount, but something like $20-25 a month, or $2-2.50 a day, payable at meters spread around the lots. Would encourage more people to walk, bike, carpool or take the bus, and end the practice of all GO riders (especially non-car parkers) subsidizing its parking lot maintenance and expansion.
London's fare system is one fare for all modes, including regional rail, per zone - take your pick of tube, tram/DRL, bus or mainline regional rail. Though I see a point of charging a premium for commuter rail here, as long as it is an extra fare above a regular fare, with free transfer to local services and upgrade fare from local services, like many other places. And if I was in charge, I would charge for parking at GO lots, not a huge amount, but something like $20-25 a month, or $2-2.50 a day, payable at meters spread around the lots. Would encourage more people to walk, bike, carpool or take the bus, and end the practice of all GO riders (especially non-car parkers) subsidizing its parking lot maintenance and expansion.
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EnviroTO
Guest
You have to price based on the value to the consumer and if that price is lower than the cost of the service you need to subsidize or reduce/remove the service. Regardless of the fact a Prius is more efficient, it hasn't taken over the market because it isn't priced at the value consumers see it to be worth. If you don't price based on the value to consumers you push them away to other, perhaps even less efficient, options.
London England can have the one fare for all modes because the city is adequately served by both modes. There are large areas of Toronto not served well by the subway system and it would be unfair to charge them more for a service of less consumer value. With every increase in fare not met by increasing consumer value of service you reduce ridership. Sitting on a local bus that takes almost an hour just to get to the subway is a poor value to the consumer.
London England can have the one fare for all modes because the city is adequately served by both modes. There are large areas of Toronto not served well by the subway system and it would be unfair to charge them more for a service of less consumer value. With every increase in fare not met by increasing consumer value of service you reduce ridership. Sitting on a local bus that takes almost an hour just to get to the subway is a poor value to the consumer.
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miketoronto
Guest
Maybe we should do like Adelaide does, for short distance trips.
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Two Section Tickets
Once validated, each trip on a Multitrip TWO SECTION ticket cannot be used to transfer onto another service and is valid only for a journey that is no more than Two Sections (approx. 3kms).
Singletrip TWO SECTION tickets cannot be used to transfer onto another service once validated and are valid only for a journey that is no more than Two Sections (approx. 3kms).
Two Sections explained
A Two Section ticket allows you to travel two sections which generally works out to be around 3 kilometres in distance.
Unlike the Adelaide Metro Zone tickets, you are unable to transfer services within a two hour time period when travelling on a Two Section ticket. Two Section tickets are considerably cheaper than Zone tickets, making them an excellent choice for anyone living close to their desired destination. Two Section tickets are available in the following varieties;
- Multitrip and Singletrip All Times Two Section tickets which can be used at any time of any day.
- Multitrip and Singletrip Interpeak Two Section tickets which can only be used between 9.01am and 3.00pm Monday to Friday excluding public holidays.
All of these tickets can only be used for Two Sections or parts thereof and are not transferable. See map below for bus section examples.
Bus travel
The map below shows how to easily identify section points on a bus timetable route map.
Start and finish of section
Train travel
When travelling on Adelaide Metro trains, one section is equivalent to one railway station therefore a Two Section ticket is valid for travelling two stations.
Tram travel
Section points for tram travel are as follows:
Section 1 - Victoria Sq stop 1 to Greenhill Rd stop4
Section 2 - Greenhill Rd stop 4 to Forestville stop 8
Section 3 - Forestville stop 8 to Beckman St stop 12
Section 4 - Beckman St stop 12 to Plympton Park stop 15
Section 5 - Plympton Park stop 15 to Glengowrie stop 17
Section 6 - Glengowrie stop 17 to Moseley Sq, Glenelg stop 21
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Two Section Tickets
Once validated, each trip on a Multitrip TWO SECTION ticket cannot be used to transfer onto another service and is valid only for a journey that is no more than Two Sections (approx. 3kms).
Singletrip TWO SECTION tickets cannot be used to transfer onto another service once validated and are valid only for a journey that is no more than Two Sections (approx. 3kms).
Two Sections explained
A Two Section ticket allows you to travel two sections which generally works out to be around 3 kilometres in distance.
Unlike the Adelaide Metro Zone tickets, you are unable to transfer services within a two hour time period when travelling on a Two Section ticket. Two Section tickets are considerably cheaper than Zone tickets, making them an excellent choice for anyone living close to their desired destination. Two Section tickets are available in the following varieties;
- Multitrip and Singletrip All Times Two Section tickets which can be used at any time of any day.
- Multitrip and Singletrip Interpeak Two Section tickets which can only be used between 9.01am and 3.00pm Monday to Friday excluding public holidays.
All of these tickets can only be used for Two Sections or parts thereof and are not transferable. See map below for bus section examples.
Bus travel
The map below shows how to easily identify section points on a bus timetable route map.
Train travel
When travelling on Adelaide Metro trains, one section is equivalent to one railway station therefore a Two Section ticket is valid for travelling two stations.
Tram travel
Section points for tram travel are as follows:
Section 1 - Victoria Sq stop 1 to Greenhill Rd stop4
Section 2 - Greenhill Rd stop 4 to Forestville stop 8
Section 3 - Forestville stop 8 to Beckman St stop 12
Section 4 - Beckman St stop 12 to Plympton Park stop 15
Section 5 - Plympton Park stop 15 to Glengowrie stop 17
Section 6 - Glengowrie stop 17 to Moseley Sq, Glenelg stop 21
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miketoronto
Guest
GREATER TORONTO TRANSIT FARES AS OF JANUARY 30, 2006.
SYSTEM-------MONTHLY PASS---TEN RIDE ADULT TICKETS
DRT--------------$87.50--------------$23.75
TTC--------------$98.75--------------$20.00
BRAMPTON----------------------------$21.00
MISSISSAUGA-----$21.00 each week---$20.00
YRT-------------$80.00/$120.00-------$22.00/$32.00
YRT FARES BASED ON TWO ZONE SYSTEM
In addition to these fares the TTC offers much better discounts to students then the suburban transit systems. 10 ride student tickets for the TTC are $13.25. On the suburban systems, they approach $18-$20 depending on the system.
A TTC METROPASS COSTS YOU $3.30 a day. Yes $3.30 to travel anywhere you want. Or 1.65 a trip if you make two trips a day.
If using a METROPASS just on work days, a METROPASS will cost you $4.94 a day.
SYSTEM-------MONTHLY PASS---TEN RIDE ADULT TICKETS
DRT--------------$87.50--------------$23.75
TTC--------------$98.75--------------$20.00
BRAMPTON----------------------------$21.00
MISSISSAUGA-----$21.00 each week---$20.00
YRT-------------$80.00/$120.00-------$22.00/$32.00
YRT FARES BASED ON TWO ZONE SYSTEM
In addition to these fares the TTC offers much better discounts to students then the suburban transit systems. 10 ride student tickets for the TTC are $13.25. On the suburban systems, they approach $18-$20 depending on the system.
A TTC METROPASS COSTS YOU $3.30 a day. Yes $3.30 to travel anywhere you want. Or 1.65 a trip if you make two trips a day.
If using a METROPASS just on work days, a METROPASS will cost you $4.94 a day.
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Chuck100
Guest
I've spent a great deal of time deciding what to put in this post, and what I have concluded is that it's impossible to be fair to everyone. Either keep things as they are now or implement a downtown centred zonal system.
What we have now is unfair to everyone who makes short trips. A zonal system would at least mean that if you live closer to the city, local trips cost less. But for those who live in the suburbs and make local trips, unfortunately they continue paying high fares. Given that the closer you are to downtown the less expensive transit is to operate, this is acdeptable.
It's just too complex to work a true fare by distance system into the fares. In order to do that properly, the city would have to be divided into 10 or more blocks, and what you pay is based on how far each block is from where you live. So you'd have to provide a metropass for each combination of blocks. It's simply not possible.
What we have now is unfair to everyone who makes short trips. A zonal system would at least mean that if you live closer to the city, local trips cost less. But for those who live in the suburbs and make local trips, unfortunately they continue paying high fares. Given that the closer you are to downtown the less expensive transit is to operate, this is acdeptable.
It's just too complex to work a true fare by distance system into the fares. In order to do that properly, the city would have to be divided into 10 or more blocks, and what you pay is based on how far each block is from where you live. So you'd have to provide a metropass for each combination of blocks. It's simply not possible.
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Mislav
Guest
The TTC kind of reminds me of a pathetic gambler that keeps on losing a great deal of money every year but thinks he's gonna come up big one day so he asks his rich cousin to bail him out each time but always comes short. In essence that's what the TTC is - a government funded pathetic gambler that keeps on losing money.
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Mislav
Guest
LOL @ comparing a crowded streetcar to a private vehicule.
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Ed007Toronto
Guest
At least the TTC returns 80% of its costs. What would you call the Toronto School Board or Public Works? How about the Toronto Public Library or the city's biggest expense the Toronto Police Force? Such nonsense.
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ganjavih
Guest
LOL @ comparing the TTC to a pathetic gambler.
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Mislav
Guest
Also look at the Parisian and New York transit system:
de.geocities.com/met_paris/paris.htm
de.geocities.com/nyc_rail/nyc.htm
In Paris:
10 tickets = 10.50 Euros = $16 CAD
Monthly Pass = 50.40 Euros = $75 CAD < Cost of TTC Metropass
In NYC:
Monthly Pass = $76 US = $92 CAD < Cost of TTC Metropass
Needleesly to say that Paris is a more expensive city than Toronto ever since the Euro came and yet has a much superior transit system. And you're telling me on how we should be paying $3 per ticket on the TTC? Give me a break.
de.geocities.com/met_paris/paris.htm
de.geocities.com/nyc_rail/nyc.htm
In Paris:
10 tickets = 10.50 Euros = $16 CAD
Monthly Pass = 50.40 Euros = $75 CAD < Cost of TTC Metropass
In NYC:
Monthly Pass = $76 US = $92 CAD < Cost of TTC Metropass
Needleesly to say that Paris is a more expensive city than Toronto ever since the Euro came and yet has a much superior transit system. And you're telling me on how we should be paying $3 per ticket on the TTC? Give me a break.