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EnviroTO
Guest
If all it takes to woo a girl is a car then she is too easy for my liking.
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Mislav
Guest
LOL, it was a joke. You can't honestly believe I would go for those kind of chicks.
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AlvinofDiaspar
Guest
Mislav:
AoD
We aren't talking about your hand.
AoD
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SD2
Guest
You'd save a lot more than $2/day, genius.
And if money is the primary concern of a family, they'd definitely take transit over the car. Even using your figures, they'd save nearly $3000/year, which is a lot of money.
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Mislav
Guest
It's so much less effort than a woman and it never nags or complains. :lol Shit, I just realized you're GeekyBoy - why'd you change your username?
Ok how do I explain this to you? I was talking about an average middle class family, not families that fall below the poverty line, which are a minority. Are you telling me an average middle class family can't afford a single car? Now tell me genius, why do you see parents driving their kids to school/hockey/their friend's house as opposed to taking the bus. Judging my your previous comments, I suppose you're in denial of this as well.
Let's conclude the argument this way: I won't be able to convince the transit fanatics that owning a car is a great convience for average middle income families and the transit fanatics won't be able to convince me that riding the streetcar for $3/fare is a rewarding and wonderful experience by itself. All in all, I don't think anybody should be able to tell somebody else how to spend their money. If you have time to spare and you're happy taking transit everywhere then fine it's your choice as for myself, I will purchase a vehicule within the next 2 years. And if that makes me a retard in the eyes of a few funny looking UT forumers, I guess there's a price for everything. :lol
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SD2
Guest
You said:
"Did I say it would be less? I said you'd prolly save 2 bucks a day and lose a hell a lot of time. Now tell me genius, do you honestly think a family is gonna spend that much money?"
When did I say they couldn't afford a car? You're the one who brought up price as a primary factor...that being the case, transit is far cheaper.
There are many middle class famillies that take their kids places using the subway or bus...including school. For that matter, there are a lot of kids who take the TTC to school.
Im not saying (nor have I ever said) that people will want to take transit just because it's cheaper or so they can brag about it...the issue you keep raising is that a car provides better value.
The TTC actually offers better value for the price paid, but of course in a society where car ownership is seen as desirable, the TTC needs to conduct some great marketing.
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Mislav
Guest
Ok now you're being a wally. You can't possibly believe all families have the same income - when I, along with most normal people, say "family" we picture an average family, that of the middle class. But I guess you're different.
Correction - I'm the one who said people will not want to pay more expensive fares for poor service.
I'm not saying there aren't any but I don't know many families that do. It's safe to say that the majority doesn't - even the ones living in downtown, whenever people go somewhere as a family they tend to take the family vehicule most of time.
LOL, I fell off the chair yet again. People ask me where I find these wallies. :rollin
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SD2
Guest
???
When did I say all families have the same income?
Im basing my responses on your statements...not mine. Im starting to think it's pointless though, as you don't seem to have any clue what you're typing.
Yes, and the point, which seems to escape you, is that even with the fare hike transit is still an excellent value.
In the suburbs for sure. As for downtown I know many families that do...and if you go to any bus stops or stations near schools downtown, you'll see they're packed with kids waiting for the bus/train...it's actually quite common, as is walking.
I wish I could say the same reading your posts. I find it a little odd you have such a complete lack of logic...it seems as if you're just trying to get people to repeat the same things over and over...
In any case, you have yet to post anything which proves that a car provides better service for the price paid - you're unrealistic figures on the price of car ownership don't really cut it.
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miketoronto
Guest
Anyway it does not matter how much the car is, because the majority of TTC riders OWN CARS anyway.
TTC's ridership according to their stats is broken down as follows.
Approx figures
65% of TTC riders own a car.
15% of TTC riders choose not to own a car, eventhough they can afford one and decided to make transit their main form of transport.
20% of TTC riders are captive, meaning they can't drive or are to poor to own a car.
In addition to that, 60% of Toronto residents use the TTC atleast once a month.
So car ownership does not mean much, as most TTC riders either have a car or choose not to own one.
Thats why ridership is so tied to service levels and fares, because most TTC riders use it by choice.
However what is not shown is that fare increases usually don't drive choice riders away(except in terms of the massive fare hikes and service cuts of the 90's), but instead fare increases drive away captive riders who can't afford the extra cost.
I remember a couple years ago, going to a rally with Rocket Riders to get employer paid METROPASS's for hotel workers. You should have heard the stories from the poor hotel workers who are captive riders. Some had to walk for like an hour and a half to get home, because they could only afford enough tokens to get to work, and not to get home.
Fare hikes hit captives. Not choice riders as much.
Thats why GO always raises fares and ridership keeps going up. Because most GO riders are choice riders, and yes own cars.
TTC is an amazing system. The only issue I have with it is travel time. If they improved travel time, more people would give up their cars.
But untill TTC addresses this issue, then we are not going to see a massive shift twords transit.
Where transit is good, people will pay for it and use it.
There is one thing alot of you guys ganging up on Mislav have to remember. And that is that cars are not as expensive as you think. The average family in Toronto no matter if you want to believe it or not can afford more then one car. And that is shown by car ownership rates. Toronto families are not some poor down ridden society. Toronto families pull in a good income and can afford cars.
Hell my parents afforded two cars, a house, savings, and university tution on one income.
Most families today have two incomes and can afford cars. Believe me they can.
TTC's ridership according to their stats is broken down as follows.
Approx figures
65% of TTC riders own a car.
15% of TTC riders choose not to own a car, eventhough they can afford one and decided to make transit their main form of transport.
20% of TTC riders are captive, meaning they can't drive or are to poor to own a car.
In addition to that, 60% of Toronto residents use the TTC atleast once a month.
So car ownership does not mean much, as most TTC riders either have a car or choose not to own one.
Thats why ridership is so tied to service levels and fares, because most TTC riders use it by choice.
However what is not shown is that fare increases usually don't drive choice riders away(except in terms of the massive fare hikes and service cuts of the 90's), but instead fare increases drive away captive riders who can't afford the extra cost.
I remember a couple years ago, going to a rally with Rocket Riders to get employer paid METROPASS's for hotel workers. You should have heard the stories from the poor hotel workers who are captive riders. Some had to walk for like an hour and a half to get home, because they could only afford enough tokens to get to work, and not to get home.
Fare hikes hit captives. Not choice riders as much.
Thats why GO always raises fares and ridership keeps going up. Because most GO riders are choice riders, and yes own cars.
TTC is an amazing system. The only issue I have with it is travel time. If they improved travel time, more people would give up their cars.
But untill TTC addresses this issue, then we are not going to see a massive shift twords transit.
Where transit is good, people will pay for it and use it.
There is one thing alot of you guys ganging up on Mislav have to remember. And that is that cars are not as expensive as you think. The average family in Toronto no matter if you want to believe it or not can afford more then one car. And that is shown by car ownership rates. Toronto families are not some poor down ridden society. Toronto families pull in a good income and can afford cars.
Hell my parents afforded two cars, a house, savings, and university tution on one income.
Most families today have two incomes and can afford cars. Believe me they can.
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spmarshall
Guest
According to Ed Drass, there is one good outcome from the fare increase - while the DayPass goes up 50 cents, the time restriction is gone - that has stopped me from buying daypasses before, but I'm going on the MDP starting in March. 
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Darkstar416
Guest
True, one underlooked bit of positive news.