Transit Fantasy Maps

[Streety McCarface]

Narrower trains can make tighter turns, and that adds more routing options, particularly for the sections that run at the surface level.

Toronto subway trains can apparently go down to track radii of 250' (77 m)
https://www.ttc.ca/TTC_Business/Mat...PandS/Addenda/ADDENDUM NO. 1 - P31BE14063.pdf (1.2.1)

NYC's (I presume for IRT lines) is 29m, less than half that of Toronto's.

That being said, these are both extreme conditions, and no matter how small the allowable radius is, speed will always be the limiting factor. Even though subway trains go really slowly around the union station curve (which is at a turning radius of about 100m, and the smallest radius any train can really travel at), trains are still going relatively fast (25 km/h) compared to a streetcar at a loop (<10 km/h).

It's worth noting that the maximum turning radius along the serviceable Canada line is around 175m, and even along those curves, trains are limited to 35 and 45 km/h. Despite nearly doubling the radius, speeds didn't increase that significantly.

Increasing the cant isn't particularly useful either since it dramatically increases cost and complexity.

 

[robmausser]

Toronto subway trains can apparently go down to track radii of 250' (77 m)
https://www.ttc.ca/TTC_Business/Materials_and_procurement/Ads_PandS/Addenda/ADDENDUM NO. 1 - P31BE14063.pdf (1.2.1)

NYC's (I presume for IRT lines) is 29m, less than half that of Toronto's.

That being said, these are both extreme conditions, and no matter how small the allowable radius is, speed will always be the limiting factor. Even though subway trains go really slowly around the union station curve (which is at a turning radius of about 100m, and the smallest radius any train can really travel at), trains are still going relatively fast (25 km/h) compared to a streetcar at a loop (<10 km/h).

It's worth noting that the maximum turning radius along the serviceable Canada line is around 175m, and even along those curves, trains are limited to 35 and 45 km/h. Despite nearly doubling the radius, speeds didn't increase that significantly.

Increasing the cant isn't particularly useful either since it dramatically increases cost and complexity.

And the Scarborough RT can go through really tight curves, like the loop at Kennedy station. Oh wait, shit, its stuck again, abort, abort!

 

[north-of-anything]

What if we made most of the downtown streetcar routes into LRTs? This is what I envision the streetcar network looking like with just some route adjustments, stop consolidation, and laying down new tracks in the Portlands and the West End. The stops are mostly approximate, meant to give a rough idea of stop spacing. the Waterfront line has two distinct services, one from Long Branch to Leslieville, and one from Park Lawn to Neville Park.

Dundas and Queen West would probably still exist in more or less their current forms, except both terminating at Broadview Station. The unnamed station next to the Keating Channel could be the terminus of the King line, but it could also be a simple shared stop with both lines continuing to Villiers Island. I also altered some of the streetcar routes to anticipate future subway expansions.

 

[WislaHD]

I like that you have added a line to Dupont.

Dupont's potential has been on my mind for a while, it is a subtle corridor not thought of much in our transportation paradigm, being north of Bloor and along the rail corridor, but it is seeing quite a bit of development activity and intersects quite a few residential neighbourhoods.

To demonstrate it's potential, it is fun to turn on satellite imaging on Google and rotate the map of Toronto so that Lake Ontario is aligned north-south. Like this, you can see that the Dupont corridor features rather prominently as the border of our downtown area, and then transitions fairly seamlessly to Dundas West into the Junction.

Asides from Dupont, I think that the section on Queen between Yonge Street and Church Street should also have the LRT prioritization. No sense in having the westbound Queen streetcars get stuck in traffic right before their most important interchange point (Queen Station).

 

[north-of-anything]

I like that you have added a line to Dupont.

Dupont's potential has been on my mind for a while, it is a subtle corridor not thought of much in our transportation paradigm, being north of Bloor and along the rail corridor, but it is seeing quite a bit of development activity and intersects quite a few residential neighbourhoods.

To demonstrate it's potential, it is fun to turn on satellite imaging on Google and rotate the map of Toronto so that Lake Ontario is aligned north-south. Like this, you can see that the Dupont corridor features rather prominently as the border of our downtown area, and then transitions fairly seamlessly to Dundas West into the Junction.

Asides from Dupont, I think that the section on Queen between Yonge Street and Church Street should also have the LRT prioritization. No sense in having the westbound Queen streetcars get stuck in traffic right before their most important interchange point (Queen Station).

Ideally the Queen line would still have prioritization east of Spadina, I just felt that if the King line was completely prioritized then there would not be as much incentive to do the same thing for the Queen line where they are 300 meters apart. Also, I think the Queen subway line should continue underneath Queen Street West to reduce the need for LRT prioritization.

 

[north-of-anything]

Actually, to add on that, pictured here are the two remaining streetcar routes. Both have some but not all features of an LRT line, with routes reoriented, and some redundant stations axed (for example, a single Windermere stop for Swansea should suffice, and Sackville/Sumach on the 501 consolidated into St Paul).

 

[jcam]

View attachment 220475

Actually, to add on that, pictured here are the two remaining streetcar routes. Both have some but not all features of an LRT line, with routes reoriented, and some redundant stations axed (for example, a single Windermere stop for Swansea should suffice, and Sackville/Sumach on the 501 consolidated into St Paul).

An extension to Sherway would also bring the streetcar relatively close to TTC's large parcel of land at Obico. TTC could theoretically make this a multi-modal yard (and meet the need of additional streetcar storage), with subway and streetcar taking much of the land area, with perhaps a 9th bus garage on a level above. The streetcar could get a service track up along Metrolinx's former CP spur (RoW is plenty wide enough)

 

[north-of-anything]

Another Jane LRT proposal, but this one is a little more modest. I believe this section would be easier to fund and construct, and would allow further utilization of the Mount Dennis site as a transit hub. Ideally, Jane LRT passengers headed further south would opt for GO, UPX, or the University branch of Line 1.

There's another reason I didn't denote any tracks south of Eglinton, but I will leave that for a future map.

 

[MrGoose]

Why have 1 downtown relief line, when you could have 3? The name of the game is "Induced Demand"

1. Break Line 1 at Spadina. Double track the section between Spadina and St Clair.
2. Construct a second downtown U along Spadina, Front and Sherborne.
3. Extend that second U along Bayview (Quad track so you can run express trains)
4. As for the original Line 1, extend it up along Bathurst, (Quad track it so you can run express trains) and expand to 16th and Yonge.
5. Zone everything between Bathurst and the Don Valley to be mid-rise at minimum.

6. Extend BD to Sherway gardens (Maybe Sq One), STC and Finch/McCowan

7. Convert the Sheppard "subway" to an LRT. Extend west and east.
8. Build the Eglinton East LRT as well as LRTs on Finch East, Lawrence East and West, Kipling, HWY 7, and Yonge north of 16th.

9. Build that Ontario Line, run up Dufferin for a bit, have it turn towards Mt Dennis, run under Weston. Also extend to Don Mil;s & Finch
10. Build another relief line under King, turn north on Woodbine, Follow OConnor, Victoria Park and Warden to Markham Civic Center

11. Kick out the Islanders, Remodel the Islands into Grant Park/ Chicago waterfront, build a streetcar link to the islands
12. Build streetcar lrts along Dufferin to Wilson Station, Kingston Rd to Eglinton, Queensway, Dupont and Bay.

13. Ignore Peel Region's transit

Heres a version with labels on the Streetcar and LRT lines



Heres a version with only "Metro" Lines

 

[Streety McCarface]

Why have 1 downtown relief line, when you could have 3? The name of the game is "Induced Demand"

1. Break Line 1 at Spadina. Double track the section between Spadina and St Clair.
2. Construct a second downtown U along Spadina, Front and Sherborne.
3. Extend that second U along Bayview (Quad track so you can run express trains)
4. As for the original Line 1, extend it up along Bathurst, (Quad track it so you can run express trains) and expand to 16th and Yonge.
5. Zone everything between Bathurst and the Don Valley to be mid-rise at minimum.

6. Extend BD to Sherway gardens (Maybe Sq One), STC and Finch/McCowan

7. Convert the Sheppard "subway" to an LRT. Extend west and east.
8. Build the Eglinton East LRT as well as LRTs on Finch East, Lawrence East and West, Kipling, HWY 7, and Yonge north of 16th.

9. Build that Ontario Line, run up Dufferin for a bit, have it turn towards Mt Dennis, run under Weston. Also extend to Don Mil;s & Finch
10. Build another relief line under King, turn north on Woodbine, Follow OConnor, Victoria Park and Warden to Markham Civic Center

11. Kick out the Islanders, Remodel the Islands into Grant Park/ Chicago waterfront, build a streetcar link to the islands
12. Build streetcar lrts along Dufferin to Wilson Station, Kingston Rd to Eglinton, Queensway, Dupont and Bay.

13. Ignore Peel Region's transit
View attachment 221083

Heres a version with labels on the Streetcar and LRT lines

View attachment 221085

Heres a version with only "Metro" Lines
View attachment 221086

It we're going to extend sheppard and build 4-track subways on Bayview, Bathurst, Sheppard's ridership will be high enough to justify a subway. Just elevate it in the more suburban sections.

 

[MrGoose]

It we're going to extend sheppard and build 4-track subways on Bayview, Bathurst, Sheppard's ridership will be high enough to justify a subway. Just elevate it in the more suburban sections.

That is true, though that also more than justifies heavy rail under Eglinton.

 

[Streety McCarface]

That is true, though that also more than justifies heavy rail under Eglinton.

Oh for sure, the crosstown (at least the portion west of science centre) should have been a subway from the start.

 

[MrGoose]

Oh for sure, the crosstown (at least the portion west of science centre) should have been a subway from the start.

At this point, can it converted into Subway in the future?

 

[Streety McCarface]

At this point, can it converted into Subway in the future?

It can (the station boxes are long enough to fit existing 6-car subway rolling stock), but it'd be expensive and cumbersome.

 

[TossYourJacket]

It can (the station boxes are long enough to fit existing 6-car subway rolling stock), but it'd be expensive and cumbersome.

Yeah, I can't imagine anyone being able to justify the cost of conversion, let alone getting the support to shut the line down for years in order to do the work.