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Transit Fantasy Maps

gweed123

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I'd rather see a busway in that corridor, to link the 407 and Mississauga Transitways.
A busway would be much more feasible, as Hydro doesn't generally like permanent structures inside of their right-of-ways. At least with a busway it's just a road, not a fixed guideway like rail.
 

M II A II R II K

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Some Fordesque leader could come along and promise the 905ers to turn a transitway into a highway making more of a case to put rail down.
 

doady

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Have we not learned from Ottawa? The conversion to LRT is a painful one. In our larger cities, we should avoid busways/transitways as much as possible. Build rail transit or don't waste the money. With so few transit dollars, we should only build on things that will bring the most benefit. Problem is, busways/transitways are a great political tool during an election.
There are three problems with the BRT in Ottawa:

1. It is the backbone of the entire system in the city of Ottawa.
2. Not only is it the backbone of the entire transit system, but the busiest, central portion of the route, Albert and Slater, is on-street rather than off the street and grade-separated. In other words, the busiest portion of the route has the lowest capacity.
3. It snows a lot in Ottawa, and articulated buses can't operate in snow.

An Etobicoke transitway would not act as the backbone of the TTC system. Even in Etobicoke, it would still be a secondary corridor compared to the two main corridors, Bloor and Eglinton. The Mississauga/Etobicoke/407 Transitway system as a whole would be a crosstown service rather than directly connecting to downtown as the Ottawa Transitway did. It would connect to lines connecting to downtown rather than connect to downtown by itself. Every station would be suburban. Even Kipling Station is suburban in nature.

And since the transitway would be entirely in suburban areas, it would easier to build an entire off-street, grade-separated system with bypass lanes at stations that can match LRT in terms of capacity (LRT lines typically do not have full grade-separation or quadruple-tracked stations).

The ridership of a BRT corridor in Etobicoke will very high but not enough to justify LRT. Ottawa Transitway had 240k weekday riders on it, around half of OC Transpo ridership, and more than all of the TTC buses in Etobicoke combined. It was just an exceptional case.
 
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adrianaliu

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brt is so op in the suburbs. living in ottawa right now and i love the way land is reserved for future transitways in their new subdivisions. brt is basically a cheap subway with more flexibility and less capacity so its perfect for the sparsely populated suburbs. imo finch hydro corridor brt should have been built all the way decades ago instead of sheppard subway, it would likely be undergoing conversion to lrt right now and would rival line 2 in terms of speed, the conversion not requiring property accquisition or tunneling.
 

robmausser

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brt is so op in the suburbs. living in ottawa right now and i love the way land is reserved for future transitways in their new subdivisions. brt is basically a cheap subway with more flexibility and less capacity so its perfect for the sparsely populated suburbs. imo finch hydro corridor brt should have been built all the way decades ago instead of sheppard subway, it would likely be undergoing conversion to lrt right now and would rival line 2 in terms of speed, the conversion not requiring property accquisition or tunneling.
The other advantage of BRT in lower density areas is the ability for buses to leave the transitway and drop people off at less nearby destinations, all without a transfer. This is vital in areas where things are further spread apart.
 

doady

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I think LRT and subway only makes sense for corridors with a lot of redevelopment potential. In Etobicoke, the corridors that fall into this category are Wilson-Albion, Eglinton, Dundas, The Queensway and Lakeshore. I don't think building LRT along a residential corridor like Finch or a hydro corridor makes much sense. We should expect a corridor to transform when we build LRT. The LRT should increase the density and concentrate people and jobs in a smaller area. Otherwise, it would be better to build BRT, which is cheaper and can serve people in a larger area.
 

adrianaliu

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also add
I think LRT and subway only makes sense for corridors with a lot of redevelopment potential. In Etobicoke, the corridors that fall into this category are Wilson-Albion, Eglinton, Dundas, The Queensway and Lakeshore. I don't think building LRT along a residential corridor like Finch or a hydro corridor makes much sense. We should expect a corridor to transform when we build LRT. The LRT should increase the density and concentrate people and jobs in a smaller area. Otherwise, it would be better to build BRT, which is cheaper and can serve people in a larger area.
if brt were built in the 80s or 90s in finch hydro corridor it would attract a degree of intensification and riders from connecting busses which would eventually justify lrt conversion, ottawa's transitways should be given more credit for some of the higher density developments nearby, if u look at the otrain route it really doesnt follow any traditional dense corridors. i think all brts should be built with eventual conversion in mind
 

WislaHD

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Ok, so where have they designed it well?
I will give you three excellent examples that cater to different markets.

Brisbane, Australia has designed a BRT system that can compete neck-and-neck with our Line 1 subway. Fun fact - they were inspired by Ottawa when they designed this one.

Rio de Janeiro, Brazil has designed a BRT system that surpasses anything we are doing with LRTs in the Toronto region in terms of ridership, quality, and frequency, at a pretty good price given the amount of service being provided.

Cleveland, Ohio shows us what we could do on any arterial road in Toronto to upgrade our normal bus routes to something comparable to Finch LRT with minimal infrastructural investment.
 

micheal_can

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I will give you three excellent examples that cater to different markets.

Brisbane, Australia has designed a BRT system that can compete neck-and-neck with our Line 1 subway. Fun fact - they were inspired by Ottawa when they designed this one.

Rio de Janeiro, Brazil has designed a BRT system that surpasses anything we are doing with LRTs in the Toronto region in terms of ridership, quality, and frequency, at a pretty good price given the amount of service being provided.

Cleveland, Ohio shows us what we could do on any arterial road in Toronto to upgrade our normal bus routes to something comparable to Finch LRT with minimal infrastructural investment.
And what about in Canada? We have/had many different BRT systems.
 

north-of-anything

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And what about in Canada? We have/had many different BRT systems.
Toronto shouldn't have to wait for some other Canadian city to do it well first. Given our cultural and environmental similarities to Cleveland, we should be looking to them if we need inspiration.

Hell, we don't even need to look outside the GTA. I love how the Mississauga Transitway is set up, and I've only ridden on it as part of a GO route. Had that been an LRT, that would have been either two needless transfers far from my destination, or just having to endure more highway traffic. I think at some point we just need to have something, because in my opinion a transit line that underestimates its ridership is better than the ROW being sold off for detached homes.
 

Toronto1

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A few questions about the former CP Don Branch, now owned by Metrolinx, Is there actually enough right-of-way available to reconstruct and double track at the following locations:
  1. For the portion that is directly adjacent to the DVP,?
  2. For the portion extending from Evergreen Brickworks to CP's Leaside Yard?
I understand that all of the overpasses on the Don Branch are single-tracked, but can be replaced. Just wondering if the rest of the branch is capable of becoming double-tracked.

Thanks!
 

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