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Transit Fantasy Maps

WislaHD

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I think maintaining a single corridor across the entire city is crucial to the feasibility of the line. I don't see a reason to break it in the Bridle Path neighbourhood because of property values or whatever else. This isn't the Spadina Expressway where we would be splitting a community in twain, and this isn't opening up the area to more private vehicles either.
I'm not concerned about the Bridle Path's property values, just that it represents a significant obstacle (which means $$$ to overcome). (However, since you bring it up, neighbourhood opposition will be a factor if something is attempted here).

The question then becomes two-fold: (a) How are commute patterns enhanced by a connection through Bridle Path that aren't already resolved by the parallel Eglinton Crosstown route, and (b) what destinations are reached by this connection?

On the former point, I would imagine that most west-bound commuters will alight at Don Mills to head downtown. So I imagine that the number of passengers who would continue their journey crosstown would be fairly small between Don Mills and Lawrence Park. Of those remainder passengers, how many would be better convenienced by a direct connection to the Eglinton Crosstown and to Yonge-Eglinton?

On the latter point, your alignment stops at Glendon Campus, but misses Sunnybrook Hospital which is the main trip generator in the area. The Bayview bus actually stops there for 5 minutes during it's journey due to its importance. For servicing the area, that is why I suggested the western half terminating there.

Finally, there are actually benefits to having shorter routes. Run times can be more reliable throughout the corridor than compared to a longer route. I wouldn't say there is a "correct" answer here, just various pros and cons that should be weighed against each other.
 

Bureaucromancer

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I think the solution to through running on Lawrence might be to turn south on Leslie, build a new transit only Wilket Creek crossing, use the existing road/trail system to cross Sunnybrook park. It definitely makes more sense to me than missing Sunnybrook and building some new ravine crossing near Bridle Path. The real question is how much we want to spend on this thing. My inclination would be to build it quick and dirty with a western branch from Leaside station (or possibly extended east to the bus terminal as Don Mills station) and the eastern running Yonge/Eglinton turning north on Bayview. The TTC will moan about duplicating the crosstown, and obviously these branches could be truncated or through routed, but the duplication doesn't seem to fall on the wrong side of unconscionable given the infrastructure we're working with and better connectivity it West hits the Relief line directly and East Yonge directly.
 

Rainforest

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IMO, a continuous Lawrence Crosstown route is only possible if a sizeable underground section (and its cost) is accepted. Both the Bridle Path area and the narrow section from Bayview to Bathurst would be blockers otherwise.

It might be best to start with the eastern section first, Rouge Hill to Don Mills / DRL interchange. Once it is in place, deal with the challenging central section.
 

north-of-anything

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If the route has to be divided halfway through, I think it might make sense for the eastern stretch to be continuous from Leslie Street (Toronto Botanical Gardens) to Rouge Hill. If the western stretch ends at Bayview, then I would also have it keep going southbound to at least Eglinton. This could draw more people to/from Sunnybrook Hospital via the Eglinton Crosstown. (If it's an LRT it miiight be able to contninue down Bayview, then swing west after the Davisville cemetery to join up with the 512, though that's probably a stretch.)
 

Hopkins123

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There better be a branch of the 124 Sunnybrook that serves CNIB, Holland Bloorview, and Toronto Rehab if the Lawrence LRT were to be constructed.
You just as well could extend the 124 south to serve the soon-to-be-completed Leaside LRT station at Bayview and Eglinton and still serve all those nodes.
 

north-of-anything

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In the same vein as the Lawrence proposal, here's one that would be even more likely to be continuous:

Steeles BRT (aka Viva Red if we ever get some kind of fare integration between YRT and TTC)

West End
Highway 407 Terminal (connections with Line 1, YRT, GO)
Pioneer Village (connections with Line 1, YRT)
Keele Street
Alness Street/Viceroy Road
Dufferin Street
New Westminster Drive
Bathurst Street

This area is mostly low-density commercial and industrial properties. Between Alness/Viceroy and Dufferin, especially, is a medium stretch of strip malls and industrial buildings. Perhaps a few of the buildings next to Steeles Avenue could be redeveloped into mid-rises with commercial frontage, to provide a smoother transition into the apartment buildings next to the Don River West.

Thornhill
Bathurst Street
Cactus Avenue/Palm Gate Boulevard
Hilda Avenue
Yonge Street (connection with Line 1)
Henderson Avenue/Maxome Avenue (positioned to the west of the intersection)
Bayview Avenue (existing bus loop preserved for Bayview service)
Laureleaf Road
Leslie Street
Don Mills Road

This area has a large amount of established neighbourhoods and parklands, so not much development is possible except for at Bathurst, Hilda, and Yonge. Stops at Bayview and Leslie are expected to be predominantly used to transfer to/from north-south lines.

East End
Don Mills Road
Woodbine Avenue (positioned to the east of the intersection, also serving Victoria Park Avenue)
Pharmacy Avenue/Esna Park Drive
Warden Avenue
Birchmount Road (positioned to the east of the intersection)
Milliken GO

This area is a mix of low density residential and slightly higher density industrial. Not much redevelopment potential here, but it does hit some trip generators on the Markham side.

I imagine there being bus-only centre lanes for as much of this route as possible. I don't believe one can expect this route to solve the majority of Steeles' transit woes. YRT (or VIVA Red) operation should have a branch (or diverge completely) north at Warden to terminate in the under-construction downtown of Markham, connecting the proposed York U campus there to the main campus at Keele. TTC service would most likely continue east after Milliken along the current Steeles East route, and west along the curbside on Steeles instead of turning north at Jane.
 

Rainforest

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Steeles BRT (aka Viva Red if we ever get some kind of fare integration between YRT and TTC)
One problem with Steeles BRT: Steeles has some tight sections, with only 4 lanes in total, and houses standing quite close to the traffic lanes.

One such section is between Bathurst and Hilda, another just east of Yonge, and if I remember correctly, there exists at least one 4-lane section further east.

Highrises on the north side of Steeles just east of Bathurst have been built fairly recently, and placed close to the road. No allowance to add the transit lanes. Maybe those transit lanes can still be squeezed in, but that' not obvious just looking at the street.
 

Leo_Chan

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In the same vein as the Lawrence proposal, here's one that would be even more likely to be continuous:

Steeles BRT (aka Viva Red if we ever get some kind of fare integration between YRT and TTC)

West End
Highway 407 Terminal (connections with Line 1, YRT, GO)
Pioneer Village (connections with Line 1, YRT)
Keele Street
Alness Street/Viceroy Road
Dufferin Street
New Westminster Drive
Bathurst Street

This area is mostly low-density commercial and industrial properties. Between Alness/Viceroy and Dufferin, especially, is a medium stretch of strip malls and industrial buildings. Perhaps a few of the buildings next to Steeles Avenue could be redeveloped into mid-rises with commercial frontage, to provide a smoother transition into the apartment buildings next to the Don River West.

Thornhill
Bathurst Street
Cactus Avenue/Palm Gate Boulevard
Hilda Avenue
Yonge Street (connection with Line 1)
Henderson Avenue/Maxome Avenue (positioned to the west of the intersection)
Bayview Avenue (existing bus loop preserved for Bayview service)
Laureleaf Road
Leslie Street
Don Mills Road

This area has a large amount of established neighbourhoods and parklands, so not much development is possible except for at Bathurst, Hilda, and Yonge. Stops at Bayview and Leslie are expected to be predominantly used to transfer to/from north-south lines.

East End
Don Mills Road
Woodbine Avenue (positioned to the east of the intersection, also serving Victoria Park Avenue)
Pharmacy Avenue/Esna Park Drive
Warden Avenue
Birchmount Road (positioned to the east of the intersection)
Milliken GO

This area is a mix of low density residential and slightly higher density industrial. Not much redevelopment potential here, but it does hit some trip generators on the Markham side.

I imagine there being bus-only centre lanes for as much of this route as possible. I don't believe one can expect this route to solve the majority of Steeles' transit woes. YRT (or VIVA Red) operation should have a branch (or diverge completely) north at Warden to terminate in the under-construction downtown of Markham, connecting the proposed York U campus there to the main campus at Keele. TTC service would most likely continue east after Milliken along the current Steeles East route, and west along the curbside on Steeles instead of turning north at Jane.
Seems like a lack of GO connections:
177446

Also, this should be discussed in the Steeles RT thread.
 
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Alexut

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One problem with Steeles BRT: Steeles has some tight sections, with only 4 lanes in total, and houses standing quite close to the traffic lanes.

One such section is between Bathurst and Hilda, another just east of Yonge, and if I remember correctly, there exists at least one 4-lane section further east.

Highrises on the north side of Steeles just east of Bathurst have been built fairly recently, and placed close to the road. No allowance to add the transit lanes. Maybe those transit lanes can still be squeezed in, but that' not obvious just looking at the street.
Bathurst to Hilda has a wide section of grass separating the sidewalk and the road on either side, with around 3m on the south side and 11m on the north, which I believe was left for specifically this purpose.

Yonge to Bayview is a different story. There's something like 2km of suburban single-family homes with driveways going directly onto Steeles and those would probably have to be expropriated for a project like this.
 

Leo_Chan

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Bathurst to Hilda has a wide section of grass separating the sidewalk and the road on either side, with around 3m on the south side and 11m on the north, which I believe was left for specifically this purpose.

Yonge to Bayview is a different story. There's something like 2km of suburban single-family homes with driveways going directly onto Steeles and those would probably have to be expropriated for a project like this.
Or just run in mixed traffic.
 

north-of-anything

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Seems like a lack of GO connections:
View attachment 177148
A connection to the Barrie Line would be nice, but it's right in the middle of a current GO station (York University) and a better location for a new station at Highway 7. The Richmond Hill Line at Steeles is flanked on both sides by single family home backyards, and also backs onto a golf course in the northeast. There wasn't much that could be done on the GO front besides the connections I already put down.

With regards to the section between Yonge and Bayview, I tried to load it in Google Street View to get a better look but it somehow crashed my computer so badly it logged me out. From what I did see, even if land could be expropriated from driveways and front lawns, it wouldn't be enough for bus lanes. That area would probably be one where mixed traffic is the only option. (Though the one house just east of Yonge that's currently home to a psychic can probably be bulldozed, but not for any bus lane-related reason.)
 

M II A II R II K

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Could there be a feasibility of having platforms on the Union Station roof for to accommodate more services there, like in the old sketches of GO ALRT elevated above the building.
 

micheal_can

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Could there be a feasibility of having platforms on the Union Station roof for to accommodate more services there, like in the old sketches of GO ALRT elevated above the building.
It is a heritage building. I doubt anyone would agree to that. However, going over the railway shed might be possible.
 

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