Transit Fantasy Maps

[reaperexpress]

This is an interesting idea, and I think I like it. One issue might be that the 501 along Lakeshore West does not have it's own ROW. I find that it is often stopped or delayed due to left turning cars. Could be an issue for an express streetcar service.

Yeah, I think that Lakeshore is ripe for a rebuild to make better use of its abundant space. The traffic is pretty light, so I figure we could continue with mixed-traffic operation but introduce left turn lanes and protected bike lanes.

The other advantage of cutting streetcar stops is that the control delay (i.e. red lights) would be substantially reduced since TSP would be able to work properly. If a streetcar is approaching at an intersection where there is no near-side stop, then extending the green light will always be beneficial.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I rearranged our transit plans given the money available to us. I didn't bother attempting to calculate exactly how much this would cost, but I think this should more or less fit within current funding constraints:

Toronto-York Spadina Subway Extension: Cancelled north of Steeles. The Steeles terminal was chosen to allow convinent access to the subway for York Region busses. Otherwise, they'd have to enter YorkU.

Scarborough Subway: Cancelled.

Scarborough RT Replacement: The corridor that was planned to be used for the Scarborough LRT will now be used for SmartTrack services. SmartTrack will follow the entire planned SLRT corridor and will terminate at Malvern. This will provide the same convenient connection downtown that the Scarborough Subway would have, at a fraction of the cost.

Eglinton-Malvern LRT: I recall form the Transit City days that the Malvern LRT would have been very well used, so extending the Eglinton LRT to Malvern via Morningside and Kingston seems like a good choice for our next LRT. The only issue I see is that this may necessitate a Relief Line extension to Eglinton @ Don Mills, to reduce crowding.

SmartTrack: Elevated on Eglinton West.

Relief Line: Runs from Pape to Bathurst. On the map is the general alignment for the line. It can be extended west and north when more funding is available:

I think this is a grand plan

 

[sixrings]

Thetigermaster. Why not simply lrt on eglinton west and smart track on the georgetown line? It's one thing to have eglinton randomly stop at mount dennis it is another to extend it in the east.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I figure that people coming for the west are more likely to transfer to SmartTrack to go downtown than to continue east on the Eglinton LRT. This setup makes it more convenient for these riders.

However I wouldn't have any reservations about continuing the LRT on Eglinton West and moving SmartTrack to Georgetown, especially if the data shows that more people would continue east on the LRT. This setup would also be cheaper.

 

[sixrings]

Just think if Yonge and Eglinton is going to grow it needs people going to it as well. Plus what if i wanted to go to York or Yonge and sheppard from the west. It would be inconvenient to either go out of my way downtown or to transfer. Similarly if you are coming from the east to the airport from midtown you are forcing a transfer. Really i just am an advocate of continuous routes.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Those are really great points I hadn't considered.

Let's say you're going to Dundas Station. Going straight to Yonge via Eglinton Line is the best of all options.

If we were to use LRT on Eglinton West, I'd be sure to widen stop spacing. I don't feel that the close spacing in transit city is appropriate for this corridor.

 

[sixrings]

There is no doubt i too advocate only stops where completely necessary. LRT is not suppose to be streetcar 2.0. Just enough stops to make sure there doesn't need to be a parallel bus route.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

I approve highly of Fuhrer TheTigerMaster's plans for Toronto transit.

Eglinton-Malvern LRT: I recall form the Transit City days that the Malvern LRT would have been very well used, so extending the Eglinton LRT to Malvern via Morningside and Kingston seems like a good choice for our next LRT. The only issue I see is that this may necessitate a Relief Line extension to Eglinton @ Don Mills, to reduce crowding.

You could call it a problem, but I call it an incentive to build the DRL to Eglinton in the future.

 

[innsertnamehere]

bit late to cancel spadina north of steeles.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I know it is. I'm just planning for when I have my time machine ready

 

[Hopkins123]

I rearranged our transit plans given the money available to us. I didn't bother attempting to calculate exactly how much this would cost, but I think this should more or less fit within current funding constraints:

Toronto-York Spadina Subway Extension: Cancelled north of Steeles. The Steeles terminal was chosen to allow convinent access to the subway for York Region busses. Otherwise, they'd have to enter YorkU.

Scarborough Subway: Cancelled.

Scarborough RT Replacement: The corridor that was planned to be used for the Scarborough LRT will now be used for SmartTrack services. SmartTrack will follow the entire planned SLRT corridor and will terminate at Malvern. This will provide the same convenient connection downtown that the Scarborough Subway would have, at a fraction of the cost.

Eglinton-Malvern LRT: I recall form the Transit City days that the Malvern LRT would have been very well used, so extending the Eglinton LRT to Malvern via Morningside and Kingston seems like a good choice for our next LRT. The only issue I see is that this may necessitate a Relief Line extension to Eglinton @ Don Mills, to reduce crowding.

SmartTrack: Elevated on Eglinton West.

Relief Line: Runs from Pape to Bathurst. On the map is the general alignment for the line. It can be extended west and north when more funding is available:

I think this is a grand plan

Why would you have both the DRL and SmartTrack run up to Dundas West Stn when one of those lines would have more of a purpose serving the transit-neglected areas of South Etobicoke via the Queensway? Also you should close the gap in-between the outer arms of YUS by either extending the Sheppard Subway to Donwsview or Finch LRT to Yonge. Otherwise your map is satisfactory for Toronto's needs.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

I agree, besides reaching Bloor in the west for additional relief (something that can be accomplished with the quicker SmartTrack), there is little benefit of bringing the DRL up Roncesvalles, there is very little ridership there. Reaching Sunnyside is good for the time being. WWLRT could serve Humber Bay.

In the long-term (2040+), Toronto will want to utilize the Queensway corridor for intensive development, by then we can likely justify extending the DRL along Queensway.


PS. I like white color for SmartTrack for some reason.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Why would you have both the DRL and SmartTrack run up to Dundas West Stn when one of those lines would have more of a purpose serving the transit-neglected areas of South Etobicoke via the Queensway?

Because the Waterfront LRT and GO RER can serve those areas at a lesser cost. Also it's unlikely that a subway on South Etobicoke will have the usage to justfy the expenditure for a very long time.

The alternatives would be to terminate the line at Roncesvalles and Queen or at Dufferin and Queen.

Also you should close the gap in-between the outer arms of YUS by either extending the Sheppard Subway to Donwsview or Finch LRT to Yonge.

I thought that money would be better spend on a Malvern LRT.

 

[aquateam]

I agree, besides reaching Bloor in the west for additional relief (something that can be accomplished with the quicker SmartTrack), there is little benefit of bringing the DRL up Roncesvalles, there is very little ridership there. Reaching Sunnyside is good for the time being. WWLRT could serve Humber Bay.

I see a lot of people pooh-pooh the western leg of the DRL, but at the same time demanding the eastern leg be overbuilt all the way to Steeles (exactly paralleling SmartTrack and the Yonge Line). Part of this comes, I think, from Steve Munro, who has lived and worked his entire life east of the Don Valley and seems to downplay or attack any transit project west of Spadina (e.g. WWLRT, Jane LRT, DRL west, ARL) as unnecessary but east of Yonge (DRL from CBD to his childhood home at Yonge/Eg, WELRT to abandoned industrial sites in the portlands, etc.) as critical.

The fact is that Toronto's center of gravity has always been tilted to the west, along with the GTA as a whole. Missisauga, Oakville, and Brampton have seen disproportionate amounts of growth, and the western section of ontario as a whole benefits from good road connections to the US.

St. George station, although not in the same situation as Yonge/Bloor currently is, will face the same capacity issues as Yonge/Bloor does (especially in the time frame of a DRL actually coming into operation). Between the Vaughn extension, the Finch LRT, and the ECLRT western extension there will soon be enough pressure on St. George station to merit relief. A faster alternative route downtown, besides resulting in time savings for Etobicoke/Missisauga commuters would relieve St. George station, the central section of Bloor-Danforth, and provide small additional relief to Bloor-Yonge.

I doubt that SmartTrack/GO RER will provide any relief from the west because:
1) The transfer connection between Dundas West and GO is awkward, just like how it is on the east side between Main and GO.
2) SmartTrack, once operational, will only be coming every 15 minutes, which doesn't justify the time penalty of transferring
3) Most people's destinations aren't actually at Union Station, so if they continue on to St. George/Yonge-Bloor and transfer they can get off at King/Queen/College/Dundas instead of making an extra connection or walking from Union. The DRL would be closer to the actual CBD
4) GO RER/SmartTrack will probably already be jammed full of passengers from Brampton by the time it hits Bloor, like how the Yonge subway trains are full for anyone south of Eglinton)
5) There is a significant fare premium to transfer to GO, and I doubt that it will completely disappear with SmartTrack (there is a premium to Paris' RER network for example)

The extra two kilometers to go up from Exhibition to Bloor add a lot of value in time-savings for west-end commuters, relief for St. George, and improved access to/from the west. My pet alignment is through Parkside to Keele, which would be shallow enough to be cut and cover and not disrupt any businesses. High Park also offers space for staging of construction material.

 

[Filip]

Because the Waterfront LRT and GO RER can serve those areas at a lesser cost. Also it's unlikely that a subway on South Etobicoke will have the usage to justfy the expenditure for a very long time.

The alternatives would be to terminate the line at Roncesvalles and Queen or at Dufferin and Queen.



I thought that money would be better spend on a Malvern LRT.

Neither will Sheppard, or many of the 'Eastern' Toronto lines, yet here we are.

aquateam said it best - kudos to your post.