Transit Fantasy Maps

[gweed123]

I think if GO REX is to be the GTA's version of Berlin's S-Bahn, it should just be this. No peak-only or otherwise limited service. True rapid transit service only, which means frequent service all day. The lmited peak-only service GO Train service should be separate from GO REX service.

I think that the Rush Hour peak trains are an important bridge service, because there's no way that all of these electrified services can be rolled out at once. The way I see it rolling out is all of the tracks that make up the Toronto-only service would be electrified first, with current GO trains overlapping it. They would then be pushed further out until the listed terminus points are reached. Eventually, everything would be electrified, but that's a while out.

For my my map, I did not have any REX service to Georgetown because Halton Hills' ban on local transit. I think not all existing GO Train service can be REXed. Not all places or corridors currently served by GO Trains can support true rapid transit express rail service. If a place has no local transit, certainly there is no point at all for it to have rapid transit service. I also think the Barrie Line cannot support a REX level of service.

Interesting point. What would you recommend be the terminuses of the electrified lines (this is an open question to everyone btw, not specifically you, because I'm interested to see what people think about it).

I think that the Barrie line, if the connecting routes are properly configured, can support a REX level of service, albeit not one of the highest used lines.

GO "REX" (Regional Express) is a catchy name. It was form Metrolinx document. It's pretty catchy, meaningful, sensible, etc. Hopefully they come up with a similar name for "LRT" because "LRT" is just dumb and makes no sense. I used "Tramway" because it fits with subway and busway. The problem of course is that the term "streetcar" is used in Toronto instead of "tram". Maybe something like "Metrocar" or "Streetcar RT" or something.

I think branding when it comes to a new rapid transit service is key. VIVA and Züm have proved this pretty conclusively. Going with GO REX as a branding name would be a good way of differentiating from the current GO service in the minds of people who only pay passing interest to transit.

The Transit City LRT service definitely needs something like that too. Any future Toronto BRT service will need the same type of branding.

 

[Dan416]

Late night copy and paste that wasn't changed, haha. Just made those changes.



I originally chose those colours when I was doing my whole system map, because they weren't used by any other lines. The main colours are very bright colours, which on a whole system map really draws your eyes to them. I kept them on just this map for consistency within all of my maps.

Also, I don't think people associate the colours of the GO lines with the lines themselves nearly as much as they do with the TTC subway map. I haven't heard of anyone refer to Lakeshore West as "the red line". On the other hand, I've heard a lot of people refer to YUS as "the yellow line".

Also, because they're being used as through lines at Union, some of the lines are going to have to change colour. Might as well not show preference and keep none of them the same colour, haha.

I totally disagree. You know I've never heard anyone refer to the subway lines as yellow, green and purple anyway.

Regardless of whether people would ever refer to a line by its colour or not, the association I think is still there.

If the lines are run through, do we need to change one of the colours? Maybe we do. Of course my preference would be to keep the busier line's colours, so Georgetown--er, Kitchener's green and Milton's orange would win over the less-used northern lines. Besides two of them are blue, and one of them is brown--so no big loss there.

You've linked Milton and Markham: I would make that line orange
You've linked Kitchener and Richmond Hill: I would make that line green
Lakeshore I would leave as red
Barrie I would make the darker blue that it uses now

I would use purple as the colour for the midtown line.

I wouldn't miss the brown used by the Stouffville line.

The only problem with the current line colours is that they somewhat duplicate TTC's colours...yellow and orange are close, both use green.

But you haven't even dealt with that problem anyway because you're still using both orange and green, just changing on which lines for no good reason.

 

[gweed123]

So I've updated my map. The biggest change is the colours back to more or less what GO is currently using. Other changes:

1) Spur added to Mississauga Centre
2) Express service pushed back to Brampton Centre
3) Express service extended to Major Mackenzie
4) Express service extended to Port Credit
5) Crosstown Express added
6) "Shuttle Service" added to the ends of each of the Express lines. Basically it'll be a DMU service that will run outside of peak in order to service those far reaching areas. It'll use either shortened GO vehicles, or O-Train style DMUs.

I'm toying with the idea of sending a branch of the Crosstown up to Brampton Centre, just as a supplement to the Express service that will be there. That'll mean less service on the Mississauga Centre route though. Thoughts?

 

[MafaldaBoy]

Wow, great map gweed123! It definitely seems as if you put a lot of effort and thought into it. I especially like your concept of the shuttle service at the ends of lines. Kudos to you

Anyways, I was aimlessly wandering about the internet, and came upon this beautifully (and radically) altered map of downtown Toronto with a rather detailed and interesting fantasy transit map in the corner. Not sure if it has been posted yet (published in 2005, I believe) but I think it deserves a look.

http://www.chbooks.com/utopia/maps/alfred-duggan

 

[Dan416]

So I've updated my map. The biggest change is the colours back to more or less what GO is currently using. Other changes:

1) Spur added to Mississauga Centre
2) Express service pushed back to Brampton Centre
3) Express service extended to Major Mackenzie
4) Express service extended to Port Credit
5) Crosstown Express added
6) "Shuttle Service" added to the ends of each of the Express lines. Basically it'll be a DMU service that will run outside of peak in order to service those far reaching areas. It'll use either shortened GO vehicles, or O-Train style DMUs.

I'm toying with the idea of sending a branch of the Crosstown up to Brampton Centre, just as a supplement to the Express service that will be there. That'll mean less service on the Mississauga Centre route though. Thoughts?

I really like your updated map...maybe because you followed my line colouring suggestions! LOL

I'm happy to see the Crosstown line go to to MCC! I guess that would avoid a Milton diversion! Although you'd still need to build that spur.

 

[gweed123]

I really like your updated map...maybe because you followed my line colouring suggestions! LOL

I'm happy to see the Crosstown line go to to MCC! I guess that would avoid a Milton diversion! Although you'd still need to build that spur.

Haha, it's still going to take some getting used to for me though, and it's definitely going to cause some confusion when I do a full fantasy map, because I usually use the same colour for the DRL.

And I think that while that spur may likely be the most expensive part of this whole plan, it's still much less expensive than a B-D extension to MCC, which would be pretty much redundant in this scenario. Although I'd still like to see an ECLRT extension to MCC parallel to the Mississauga Transitway for some kind of a local rail-based connection.

Wow, great map gweed123! It definitely seems as if you put a lot of effort and thought into it. I especially like your concept of the shuttle service at the ends of lines. Kudos to you

Gracias!

 

[ShonTron]

Brampton really needs more service than shown - crazy how Cooksville has 3 to 4 times the number of trains going through it, Richmond Hill 2x. My suggestions about sharing one line with Woodbridge was not incorporated.

I would also propose Mount Pleasant, rather than Brampton, as the terminus partly as there's a lot more room to move trains around there, and so it can act as an intra-Brampton service as well (and easy to have cross-platform transfers). I might suggest East Gwilimbury over Newmarket for the same reasons - Newmarket is a lousy, constrained station site.

 

[CDL.TO]

And I think that while that spur may likely be the most expensive part of this whole plan, it's still much less expensive than a B-D extension to MCC, which would be pretty much redundant in this scenario. Although I'd still like to see an ECLRT extension to MCC parallel to the Mississauga Transitway for some kind of a local rail-based connection.

I'd advocate for a diversion rather than just a spur. If you re-connected to the Milton line just north of the current Erindale station (relocate it 600m north where it could also connect to the Transitway), it could be built partly on the surface, ALL trains could serve Mississauga Centre and, perhaps more importantly, people will be able to take a train from Streetsville, Meadowvale, or Milton to MCC.

MCC hasn't seen a new office building in, what, 25 years? If we want it to be a commercial centre for the region, it needs quality connections to the whole region.

 

[bielawski]

Here's my take on a GO S-Bahn/RER, including the CN/CP mainlines and others, with a rough proof-of-concept schedule. It also shows a possible new Milton line alignment through MCC with stations at Hurontario/King and Living Arts/Princess Royal.

 

[BurlOak]

Haha, it's still going to take some getting used to for me though, and it's definitely going to cause some confusion when I do a full fantasy map, because I usually use the same colour for the DRL.

And I think that while that spur may likely be the most expensive part of this whole plan, it's still much less expensive than a B-D extension to MCC, which would be pretty much redundant in this scenario. Although I'd still like to see an ECLRT extension to MCC parallel to the Mississauga Transitway for some kind of a local rail-based connection.

If the Miway would be shown on this map, it would connect Pearson, MCC and Erindale (almost). This route could be turned into LRT in the future as Ottawa has done. This would make your spur look better.

For your legend, I was wondering if you considered a dotted line for the "Local" routes instead of a different shade. I also considered shifting some rows around in the legend so that each row contains the same type of service. Since the "green" line has an extra Woodbridge line joining in, this required a row with mostly blanks. I also wonder if there are 2 routes to Pearson - a "Local" that stops at all stops and the ARL which is express (skips some stops). "Express" seems to be used too much and people understand express as skipping stops. I would consider "Local" and "Regional" service which makes all stops and "Peak Express" for the ones that skip stops. Have a look at this and see if you can use anything. btw, your green line on the map should stop at Richmond Hill and not go to Major Mac to be consistant with the wording in the Legend.

 

[Dan416]

Haha, it's still going to take some getting used to for me though, and it's definitely going to cause some confusion when I do a full fantasy map, because I usually use the same colour for the DRL.

And I think that while that spur may likely be the most expensive part of this whole plan, it's still much less expensive than a B-D extension to MCC, which would be pretty much redundant in this scenario. Although I'd still like to see an ECLRT extension to MCC parallel to the Mississauga Transitway for some kind of a local rail-based connection.



Gracias!

I've kinda gotten used to red as the colour for the DRL based on the DRL Now maps in particular.

BD extension to MCC and GO train diversion are NOT redundant over the long-term. Not doing both would be tremendously short-sighted. Not on the same level of madness as the Sheppard East debacle, but still up there.

I think anyone who says they duplicate service is not from Mississauga.

 

[gweed123]

Here's my take on a GO S-Bahn/RER, including the CN/CP mainlines and others, with a rough proof-of-concept schedule. It also shows a possible new Milton line alignment through MCC with stations at Hurontario/King and Living Arts/Princess Royal.

Wow, very detailed map. Very interesting using the line that runs between just north of Streetsville and Brampton. What's the possibility of having that line double-tracked? I'm thinking maybe do some kind of a loop service using that line as well as the Georgetown and Milton lines?

If the Miway would be shown on this map, it would connect Pearson, MCC and Erindale (almost). This route could be turned into LRT in the future as Ottawa has done. This would make your spur look better.

For your legend, I was wondering if you considered a dotted line for the "Local" routes instead of a different shade. I also considered shifting some rows around in the legend so that each row contains the same type of service. Since the "green" line has an extra Woodbridge line joining in, this required a row with mostly blanks. I also wonder if there are 2 routes to Pearson - a "Local" that stops at all stops and the ARL which is express (skips some stops). "Express" seems to be used too much and people understand express as skipping stops. I would consider "Local" and "Regional" service which makes all stops and "Peak Express" for the ones that skip stops. Have a look at this and see if you can use anything. btw, your green line on the map should stop at Richmond Hill and not go to Major Mac to be consistant with the wording in the Legend.

View attachment 8795

Interesting idea with the dotted line, I'll try it out and see how it looks. And I agree with all of the "express" names, I'll figure something out to change it.

I've kinda gotten used to red as the colour for the DRL based on the DRL Now maps in particular.

BD extension to MCC and GO train diversion are NOT redundant over the long-term. Not doing both would be tremendously short-sighted. Not on the same level of madness as the Sheppard East debacle, but still up there.

I think anyone who says they duplicate service is not from Mississauga.

Yeah, that's why I chose those colours that I used to have. At least before I did all of the 'local' colours, none of them duplicated any of the existing or proposed subway line colours. The red may work for a GO REX map, but for a whole system map it could get pretty confusing.

And I don't really see how a subway to MCC could be justified if there is an express GO service from Kipling to MCC, an LRT on Hurontario, and a BRT on Dundas. It seems like all of the trip patterns that a B-D extension would serve are covered pretty well. Maybe I'm missing something.

 

[BurlOak]

Interesting idea with the dotted line, I'll try it out and see how it looks. And I agree with all of the "express" names, I'll figure something out to change it.

If we ever got integration between TTC and GO REX, would the rapid transit lines also show up on this map. I thought using dotted lines could free up light green for B-D, yellow for YUS, and maybe pink for Sheppard (or switch purple with pink for your Malvern Crosstown).

Would any of the Transit City lines be important enough to make this map in colour, or would they just be grey as you show them. Maybe only grade separated rapid transit would be shown in colour for this map - which excludes all of TC. Would BRT be a dotted grey? Could an asterisk be placed on the stops in Toronto where the "Peak Express" trains stop - it may be very few. If I understood correctly, the (what you called) Express (and I called Regional) and the Local service would stop at all stations along their routes.

If the dotted line works (looks ok), you could switch the Lakeshore line to be dark blue (water is blue) and reserve the Red for the DRL.

I would like to know how many tracks are existing at the varous locations and how many would be required to pull this off.

I probably forgot to mention it, but the map is very impressive and clear.

 

[CDL.TO]

I've kinda gotten used to red as the colour for the DRL based on the DRL Now maps in particular.

Which is interesting, seeing that he uses orange for the DRL.

 

[unimaginative2]

BD extension to MCC and GO train diversion are NOT redundant over the long-term. Not doing both would be tremendously short-sighted. Not on the same level of madness as the Sheppard East debacle, but still up there.

I think anyone who says they duplicate service is not from Mississauga.

Well okay, but who is served by a subway from Kipling that isn't served by a regional rail line from Kipling?