M II A II R II K
Senior Member
If it's downgraded we would have one of the world's largest LRT underground stations.
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Transit City: Sheppard East Debate
- Thread starter unimaginative2
- Start date
andomano
Active Member
In some cities the LRT stations are built big enough to provide space necessary for the future upgrade to subway capacities (ie premetro systems), such as in the current system in Antwerp, and what the previous (now upgraded) system in Brussels
Dan416
Senior Member
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Downgrading the Sheppard Subway could quite possibly be the stupidest idea I've ever heard.
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
I agree.
The Sheppard subway would actually have quite a high ridership if it was actually completed as planned. Perhaps there are some routes that need subway more than Sheppard, but that doesn't mean the Sheppard should be mothballed for the others. Why can't we have subway on all the corridors we need it on?
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
You don't know?
Money. Money. Money.
As in:
"You can't spend my tax dollars on that!"
"I'm scared of not getting re-elected, better do what's safe."
"RECESSION. God help us!"
"I drive everywhere. Even to the corner store. I don't want my money spent on these silly left-wing transit schemes."
"That money should rightfully be spent on...[insert cause du jour here]"
"How much to build that?!?!?!"
"Taxes, taxes, taxes....*whine**whine**whine*"
and my all-time favourite!
"That's my tax money and I don't want it spent on that....even though I illegally cut corners as much as possible so as to not have to pay taxes."
edit*
I can't believe I forgot this one:
"That money would be better spent on building new highways."
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Click over to spacingtoronto's article on highway interchanges to see what highway projects people seem to eager to pay homage to, by clicking on this link.
andomano
Active Member
Money isn't a problem. The real problem is bureaucratic process thanks to our democracy. If our political structure was different (ie communism or socialism) then things would actually get done. Nevermind the social ramifications.
kettal
Banned
Totally. Let's switch over to communism, for the good of the Sheppard subway.
Fresh Start
Banned
You say that like it'd be such a bad thing.
The subway/exclusive ROW rapid transit achievements of communist/socialist world cities:
Us:
Excessive democracy, which is precisely what our political climate has devolved into, is never a good thing. People are literally keeling over in the States as we speak because the elected leader cannot pass simple legislation that is in the public's best interest due to every fringe politico entering the fray to object. Even fellow Democrats vote against healthcare reforms. That qualities of life are at stake for people half a nation or region away really means nothing to local continuents and vice-versa. Our human narcissistic failings won't allow us to see things through other's perspective. In trying to please too many coffers all at once to curry favour (i.e. covet votes) we often fall short of satisfying anyone; spending too much time consulting, advising, re-advising until years pass and nothing really gets accomplished. The dollar inflates, citizens fed up migrate elsewhere in search of better living conditions; and in the end our feckless, shameless elected officials continue to skid by on accomplishing very very little for the cushy positions our votes have provided them. I rather politicians put NIMBYs on notice that they live as part of a greater community beyond the scope of their narrow interests, and that they cannot simply run to self-serving individuals only out to win elections expecting to obstruct social progress.
The subway/exclusive ROW rapid transit achievements of communist/socialist world cities:
- Moscow, Russia: the world's second most heavily used metro system - 177 stations and 292.2 km (181.6 mi)
- Shanghai, China - 196 stations and 284.6 km (176.8 mi)
- Beijing, China - 147 stations and 228 km (142 mi)
- Guangzhou, China - 60 stations and 116 km
- Santiago, Chile - 100 stations and 84.4 km
- Buenos Aires, Argentina - 74 stations and 52.3 km (32.5 mi); with the socialist-leaning gov't planning an additional 33 stations and 22.5km of track.
Us:
- 69 stations on 68.3 kilometres (42.4 mi)
Excessive democracy, which is precisely what our political climate has devolved into, is never a good thing. People are literally keeling over in the States as we speak because the elected leader cannot pass simple legislation that is in the public's best interest due to every fringe politico entering the fray to object. Even fellow Democrats vote against healthcare reforms. That qualities of life are at stake for people half a nation or region away really means nothing to local continuents and vice-versa. Our human narcissistic failings won't allow us to see things through other's perspective. In trying to please too many coffers all at once to curry favour (i.e. covet votes) we often fall short of satisfying anyone; spending too much time consulting, advising, re-advising until years pass and nothing really gets accomplished. The dollar inflates, citizens fed up migrate elsewhere in search of better living conditions; and in the end our feckless, shameless elected officials continue to skid by on accomplishing very very little for the cushy positions our votes have provided them. I rather politicians put NIMBYs on notice that they live as part of a greater community beyond the scope of their narrow interests, and that they cannot simply run to self-serving individuals only out to win elections expecting to obstruct social progress.
kettal
Banned
Let's not forget that other marvel of communist infrastructure, the Berlin wall.
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GTS
Active Member
New York City has the second largest subway network next to London, England. New York City is pretty far from from Communism or even Socialism, but they get things done. Right now they are expanding their network even more- they are contructing a new line under 2nd Ave. in Manhattan. NYC is a little more liberal then a lot of areas in the states but they are getting massive investment in public transit.
Here in Canada our Conservative Party, which is even more left then the American federal Democratic party is funding transit in all parts of Canada. I have been pleasantly surprised with the federal, and expected provincial, contributions in three of the Transit City lines so far, including this threads topic of the Sheppard East LRT.
I am not a supporter of the Conservative Party but I can appreciate the good they are doing for transit here in Canada's urban centers. If the Cons did this I could only dream about what my party, the NDP would fund. I am sure Toronto would get as much funding as Madrid has for public transit in the last few decades if the NDP were in power.
Here in Canada our Conservative Party, which is even more left then the American federal Democratic party is funding transit in all parts of Canada. I have been pleasantly surprised with the federal, and expected provincial, contributions in three of the Transit City lines so far, including this threads topic of the Sheppard East LRT.
I am not a supporter of the Conservative Party but I can appreciate the good they are doing for transit here in Canada's urban centers. If the Cons did this I could only dream about what my party, the NDP would fund. I am sure Toronto would get as much funding as Madrid has for public transit in the last few decades if the NDP were in power.
Riverdale Rink Rat
Senior Member
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Hahahaha... all-time favourite UT post!
... although I think you're missing the Fascist end of the circle that unites the right and left at dictatorship -- Mussolini was famous for 'making the trains run on time.' And massacres.
... although I think you're missing the Fascist end of the circle that unites the right and left at dictatorship -- Mussolini was famous for 'making the trains run on time.' And massacres.
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
Totally, totally agree!
While I hate the conservatives, they have been making public transit improvements. And I bet if we requested for $100 million extra for a subway instead of LRT, they'd probably be fine to provide that. The biggest problem I see in this is the plan. There's really no subway in the plan, and that makes it hard for any government to fund a real RT network. IMO, if Miller and Giambrone get booted out for a mayor who recognizes that Amsterdam actually has a metro system too, the funding will come in place. I mean, you can practically see the tears in McGuinty's eyes as he says there might not be enough funding for more transit projects.
NYC is getting a lot done in the transit sector, it's true. The 2nd Avenue subway was in the motion since 1980, but 1980 was the golden age of Northern New York, and transit-friendly hell for US cities, with the 90's being little better. So considering they've been able to get it all started and going in less than 10 years of real work on it, that's not terrible. They've also got their LRT that they're working on, and some other subway and Regional Rail expansions being considered.
On a side note, London's also in the business for some big subway expansions, including the massive Crossrail expansion. Paris is gearing up for a huge metro expansion, and all the Chinese cities are continuing to expand their Metro system. The Indian cities are also working on huge new Metros. Hell, Baghdad is fixing up their Metro to get it working again, and Tehran is expanding their Metro too. And soon, Mecca will have a huge 5-line Metro network. Like, I know we're totally beneath the Middle East, but we could at least try, couldn't we?
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
I don't like the money argument. The TTC proposed an LRT base transit city plan and got funding for that. It's difficult to claim that had they proposed a transit city plan composed of an eastern DRL, Sheppard E & W extensions, Spadina and Yonge extensions, and an Eglinton subway, or a mix of subway and LRT that we wouldn't have gotten the funding for those. It seems monopic to focus solely on one mode of transport while ignoring all other modes (and those projects that quite obviously deserve them. See DRL and the "blockage" of Sheppard E with the LRT) when we are spending upwards of $20 billion on the current plan.
Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
If you really want the Sheppard Subway extension, then you need to shut people up like Steve Munro at all of these TTC and community meetings. Right now, his voice is much stronger than most of yours and his messages are getting out to people.
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